The hiddenness of God

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Flop has kind of agreed to me setting this thread up subsequent to a post suggesting the hiddenness of God.

So to kick off ,many theists would say that is not their experience.

I know people who on finding God admit to Goddodging, knowing that God was there but not knowing God well, finding what they were looking for..............all hardly hidden.

In what way then is God hidden?

[floo]

Flop has kind of agreed to me setting this thread up subsequent to a post suggesting the hiddenness of God.

So to kick off ,many theists would say that is not their experience.

I know people who on finding God admit to Goddodging, knowing that God was there but not knowing God well, finding what they were looking for..............all hardly hidden.

In what way then is God hidden.

Can you see, hear, or feel it in the real sense of those words?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Can you see, hear, or feel it in the real sense of those words?

I think only those who experienced the incarnation could possibly come close to anything like an answer to that.

[SteveH]

I assume "Flop" is a typo, but I think it's what I'm going to call LR from now on!

[floo]

I assume "Flop" is a typo, but I think it's what I'm going to call LR from now on!

Thank you dear.

[Stranger]

In what way then is God hidden.

In what way is it (if it exists) not hidden?

No objective evidence and no sound logical arguments. Those who claim to have encountered some sort of god or gods do not agree with each other about which of the many gods are real, and even those who claim to have found the same one can't agree as to the details of its message.

In short (if there is a god) it is cunningly disguised as a baseless, primitive superstition amongst a whole host of similar baseless, primitive superstitions.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In what way is it (if it exists) not hidden?

No objective evidence and no sound logical arguments. Those who claim to have encountered some sort of god or gods do not agree with each other about which of the many gods are real, and even those who claim to have found the same one can't agree as to the details of its message.

In short (if there is a god) it is cunningly disguised as a baseless, primitive superstition amongst a whole host of similar baseless, primitive superstitions.

That's answering a question with a question isn't it.
I dispute that God is hidden and you cannot have it both ways with a godchecker.....the take away message being that God seems to pop up everywhere.

True to form you seem to alight on the Gods of the primitive, both historical and social as exemplar.
The fallacy of modernity.

[floo]

That's answering a question with a question isn't it.
I dispute that God is hidden and you cannot have it both ways with a godchecker.....the take away message being that God seems to pop up everywhere.

True to form you seem to alight on the Gods of the primitive, both historical and social as exemplar.
The fallacy of modernity.

You dispute that god is hidden, so why can't everyone can actually see, hear and feel it?

[Anchorman]

Can you see, hear, or feel it in the real sense of those words?

   



Define 'real'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You dispute that god is hidden, so why can't everyone can actually see, hear and feel it?

Why can't everyone see, here and feel a gamma ray?
Answer, it is the way of the world that some things are not felt, heard or seen.
Having said that, we are presented with the incarnation an event hardly hidden for the past two thousand years.

[floo]

   



Define 'real'?

I want to be able to see, hear and feel it in exactly the same way as I would with a human.

[SteveH]

   



Define 'real'?

What's the magic word? Also, a command should not be followed by a question mark.

[Stranger]

That's answering a question with a question isn't it.

No.

I dispute that God is hidden and you cannot have it both ways with a godchecker.....the take away message being that God seems to pop up everywhere.

Simply untrue. There is no 'God' that pops up everywhere - there are all sorts of very different gods (often several at once) along with all sorts of other mythical beings, that pop up throughout human history. Humans are superstitious and like to invent beings to blame or thank for stuff, is the take away message.

Even if you insist that all these gods are supposed to be a 'God' revealing itself to us - it's doing a seriously shitty job of it.

Once again, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, who has a vitally important message for us, why isn't it as plain as day to everybody?

[Anchorman]

I want to be able to see, hear and feel it in exactly the same way as I would with a human.

Why?
God is not 'human'.

[Anchorman]

What's the magic word? Also, a command should not be followed by a question mark.

In LR's case, it should.

[floo]

Why?
God is not 'human'.

So how do we know it exists except in the mind of humans? If it can supposedly create a universe surely it can devise a way of revealing itself to every human in a way, which puts its existence beyond any doubt.

[Anchorman]

So how do we know it exists except in the mind of humans? If it can supposedly create a universe surely it can devise a way of revealing itself to every human in a way, which puts its existence beyond any doubt.

Why?
Christains accept God revealed Himself in Christ.
That, in God's view, was all that was needed.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No.

Simply untrue. There is no 'God' that pops up everywhere - there are all sorts of very different gods (often several at once) along with all sorts of other mythical beings, that pop up throughout human history. Humans are superstitious and like to invent beings to blame or thank for stuff, is the take away message.

Even if you insist that all these gods are supposed to be a 'God' revealing itself to us - it's doing a seriously shitty job of it.

Once again, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, who has a vitally important message for us, why isn't it as plain as day to everybody?

Let's bring some order to the bouillebase of your thinking.
First of all tidy organise your Gods
Personal Gods
The Gods of individual things or areas
Gods of aspects of life
High gods
Monotheism
Pantheism
Intelligent creators


Now, that's more rationalised even though you love your mess.

[Stranger]

No.

Simply untrue. There is no 'God' that pops up everywhere - there are all sorts of very different gods (often several at once) along with all sorts of other mythical beings, that pop up throughout human history. Humans are superstitious and like to invent beings to blame or thank for stuff, is the take away message.

Even if you insist that all these gods are supposed to be a 'God' revealing itself to us - it's doing a seriously shitty job of it.

Once again, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, who has a vitally important message for us, why isn't it as plain as day to everybody?

<nothing remotely relevant to my points>

Do you want another go?

[Stranger]

Christains accept God revealed Himself in Christ.
That, in God's view, was all that was needed.

So is this god of yours only interested in a particular type of very gullible people who'll believe in a specific old, fantastical story, while rejecting the others and without any actual evidence or reasoning, is it just incompetent, or does it have some form of communication problem?

[SteveH]

I want to be able to see, hear and feel it in exactly the same way as I would with a human.

That happened, 2000 years ago.

[floo]

Why?
Christains accept God revealed Himself in Christ.
That, in God's view, was all that was needed.

In which case god is being daft!

[Stranger]

That happened, 2000 years ago.

Allegedly.

[floo]

That happened, 2000 years ago.

Jesus wasn't a god only a mere human like the rest of us.

[Enki]

I don't have any feeling of God being hidden from me. I just see no evidence that any god exists. If God did actually exist then I can only suggest the following:

1) It is incapable of showing itself to me.

2) I am incapable of seeing it(which would be an admittamce of its own failings, unless it wanted me thus).

3) It deliberately keeps itself hidden for some reason which is unknown to me.

4) It shows itself to others, but in such a variety of ways, and under such a myriad of often contrasting and contradictory guises, that it may as well be hidden or show a great deal of confusion in its thinking, perhaps because it is suffering from something similar to a multi-personality disorder.

5) If you wish, please add to this list. I might or might not agree with you, of course.

So, I see no point whatsoever in actually thinking that God is hiding from me, because that would presuppose that I believed in God, which I don't.