The hiddenness of God

[floo]

Perhaps, but the thing being advertised might be the best option, and you do not choose it for the wrong reason.

Advertising brings it to your attention, your investigations inform you whether it us a good buy.

Simply not buying it because it was advertised removes the rational reasoning of its merits, if it has any.

Why do I want something brought to my attention? I buy what I want and need, nothing else.

[jeremyp]

To speed things up then: you'll have, at the drop of the proverbial hat, and momentarily, a cogent argument for 'God' that we can all get stuck into?

Nope.

He said "if you have a refutation of an argument..." He doesn't have a refutation of the "there is no god" argument.

[jeremyp]

Why do I want something brought to my attention? I buy what I want and need, nothing else.

How do you know what shop to go to?

[BeRational]

Why do I want something brought to my attention? I buy what I want and need, nothing else.

Sometimes it's useful to know something is available that you did not know.

It's all just information

[floo]

How do you know what shop to go to?

The one which offers the best value for money for the goods we wish to buy, we compare prices on-line.

[BeRational]

The one which offers the best value for money for the goods we wish to buy, we compare prices on-line.

Sometimes I see something useful, and think I must look I to that. It does not mean no buy the one being advertised, but I may do once I have seen what is out there.

[jeremyp]

The one which offers the best value for money for the goods we wish to buy, we compare prices on-line.

That's a form of advertising. The name above the shop is a form of advertising.

[floo]

Sometimes I see something useful, and think I must look I to that. It does not mean no buy the one being advertised, but I may do once I have seen what is out there.

As I said we have no interest in being tempted into buying something we don't really need. The fact that we haven't given into whimsical buying over the years and only bought things we really needed, means we are reasonably comfortable in our old age. Blimey this is way off topic!

[SteveH]

you think you do and I am not saying that to be offensive, advertising does more to us than we know..

This may be the only time I will agree with GoG. That was my reaction to LR's post, as well.

[SteveH]

Our children had to hope, when they were kids, that nothing on their wish lists had been advertised on TV, because they certainly wouldn't be having it if that had been the case.

That seems incredibly mean to me.

[floo]

That seems incredibly mean to me.

Why? We knew for a fact the toys the children thought they wanted wouldn't give them satisfaction, whereas what they actually got certainly did. In fact some of their toys are still around to this day, as they were much loved and played with by their own children, who also delighted in them. Our eldest girl, the vicar, still has her hobby horse and uses it as an illustration, from time to time, when doing kid's services.

[ippy]

I didn't avoid them; I just couldn't be arsed to answer them. This is what usually happens on these threads - the nerdy antheistic obsessives bang on and on relentlessly, spouting their dribs and drabs of philosophy, until everyone except themselves is bored stiff and gives up for the sake of their sanity, then proclaim themselves the winners.

I have sympathy with this post of yours Steve, it's the sematic pedants that are the worst.

I'm sure we all have our hang ups, but those types that pick you up for saying, it's a nice day today, and the next thing you can then get is, what do you mean by a nice day? I just give up on those.

Regards ippy

[bluehillside Retd.]

ipster,

I have sympathy with this post of yours Steve, it's the sematic pedants that are the worst.

I'm sure we all have our hang ups, but those types that pick you up for saying, it's a nice day today, and the next thing you can then get is, what do you mean by a nice day? I just give up on those.

Nope – see Reply 139 for what he was actually up to.

[Grace of God]

Grace,

Actually I see lots of intrusions by “God” stories into secular life, but your assertion was that, “God is hidden by…” etc. Did you actually mean something like, “the narratives about the god in which I believe get less coverage than they used to in advertising etc”?

what I meant was things stop people considering God and even things that should highlight God's existence are used just to sell

[bluehillside Retd.]

Grace,

what I meant was things stop people considering God…

Distract people from considering various beliefs about various gods perhaps, but introducing “God” here as if it had already been demonstrated is called begging the question.

…and even things that should highlight God's existence…

Why should they highlight that, and what makes you think that “God” exists at all?

…are used just to sell

Well yes, that is what advertising is for but your complaint seems to be that they’re trying to sell their products rather than sell your belief in a god.

[ippy]

So is 'God doesn't exist' the default position?

No, it's just that there isn't suficiant evidence around anywhere that would make it worth the effort to go looking for any such thing as a he she or it thing people often refer to as a god.

The idea of a god is as unlikey as the idea of an orbiting teapot.

The default is, untill there is some evidence produced from somwhere that would make it worth looking for this supposed god figure there's no such thing as a god.

I can't see why you're having any difficulty understanding this fact.

Regards ippy

[Grace of God]

Grace,

Distract people from considering various beliefs about various gods perhaps, but introducing “God” here as if it had already been demonstrated is called begging the question.

Why should they highlight that, and what makes you think that “God” exists at all?

Well yes, that is what advertising is for but your complaint seems to be that they’re trying to sell their products rather than sell your belief in a god.

I can't decide if you are just deliberately trying to misunderstand me or not..

the op is about God hiding, so I assumed we were discussing the God of the bible, as most of the time that is the case..

I did not consider this thread was debating the existence of the God of the bible but was more assuming the existence..

I do not expect them to advertise my God, my point is they advertise anything but....

[ippy]

Why do I want something brought to my attention? I buy what I want and need, nothing else.

Annoying as it is, advertising works and keeps people in their jobs, there's no need work it out, who in their right mind would spend the money they do on advertising if it didn't work.

It p's me off too, L R.

Regards ippy

[Grace of God]

No, it's just that there isn't suficiant evidence around anywhere that would make it worth the effort to go looking for any such thing as a he she or it thing people often refer to as a god.

The idea of a god is as unlikey as the idea of an orbiting teapot.

The default is, untill there is some evidence produced from somwhere that would make it worth looking for this supposed god figure there's no such thing as a god.

I can't see why you're having any difficulty understanding this fact.

Regards ippy

so you wouldn't consider eternity a good reason to investigate,...

how would you know it is not worth investigating, other than you just deciding it isn't?

[Stranger]

I do not expect them to advertise my God, my point is they advertise anything but....

But why would an omnipotent, omniscient, just and fair god, with a vitally important message for us (which is what most Christian gods are supposed to be) - need advertising?

Why isn't it making itself and its message totally obvious to everybody so they can make an informed choice?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Grace,

I can't decide if you are just deliberately trying to misunderstand me or not..

the op is about God hiding, so I assumed we were discussing the God of the bible, as most of the time that is the case..

I did not consider this thread was debating the existence of the God of the bible but was more assuming the existence..

I do not expect them to advertise my God, my point is they advertise anything but....

But why then would a god of the omnis with an important message for mankind have to rely on Saatchi & Saatchi or WPP to do the advertising/PR job for him rather than cut out the middle men and go direct to his audience?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Grace,

so you wouldn't consider eternity a good reason to investigate,...

Sounds like Pascal's wager to me, and in any case you'd need first to provide a method to do the investigating. What would you propose?

...how would you know it is not worth investigating, other than you just deciding it isn't?

Wrong question. Anything might be worth investigating - problem is though, there's no means to do it.

[SteveH]

I have sympathy with this post of yours Steve, it's the sematic pedants that are the worst.

I'm sure we all have our hang ups, but those types that pick you up for saying, it's a nice day today, and the next thing you can then get is, what do you mean by a nice day? I just give up on those.

Regards ippy

[ippy]

so you wouldn't consider eternity a good reason to investigate,...

how would you know it is not worth investigating, other than you just deciding it isn't?

For what reason do you think anyone should be considering eternity? I don't see any relevance eternity has to that last posting of mine?

When as you must know that there's no viable evidence to be found anywhere that would support this god idea of yours, there's no evidence, none, zero evidence, it only makes sense to find some evidence first before you go looking for something as unlikely to be found as a god, lets face it G O G, surly you wouldn't go looking for a unicorn, a pixie an orbiting teapot or a god without some sort of indication that there was good reason to think they were there to make it worth the effort trying to find these things before you go looking for them in the first place?

Regards ippy

[Maeght]

No, it's just that there isn't suficiant evidence around anywhere that would make it worth the effort to go looking for any such thing as a he she or it thing people often refer to as a god.

The idea of a god is as unlikey as the idea of an orbiting teapot.

The default is, untill there is some evidence produced from somwhere that would make it worth looking for this supposed god figure there's no such thing as a god.

I can't see why you're having any difficulty understanding this fact.

Regards ippy

Because saying there is no such thing as God is a statement which needs supporting evidence. You cannot prove a negative. You cannot say God definitely doesn't exist. So how is it the default position?