'Repeal the 8th'

[Alan Burns]

The sight of people rejoicing in the fact that unborn children in Ireland no longer have the right to live is a sad, very sad indictment on the way modern society has lost its way.

Popular opinion can never take away the humanity of the child in its mother's womb,

[wigginhall]

Of course, that is not what people are celebrating.  But I think you know that, and you are just trying a bit of misrepresentation.

[Aruntraveller]

The sight of people rejoicing in the fact that unborn children in Ireland no longer have the right to live is a sad, very sad indication on the way modern society has lost its way.

Popular opinion can never take away the humanity of the child in its mother's womb,

Right. And let's not forget the humanity of forcing women to carry dead babies to full term. It is not a black and white issue no matter how the forces at the extremes of opinion like to portray it.

[Rhiannon]

Pregnancy and birth are the most dangerous times in life for most women in the West. Even if a healthy baby is carried to term, the consequences of a difficult or botched labour can be painful, humiliating and lifelong. And this happens far more than people realise, partly because women are conditioned not to speak out (pregnancy and birth arexsupposed to be blessings, right?) and partly because of shame and embarrassment.

I’m lucky that I got through mine relatively ok (a doctor told me this is the unspoken benefit of needed c-sections) but there’s no way my body could take another pregnancy. In the vanishingly unlikely event that I got pregnant now I’d have a termination in a heartbeat, not just for my sake, but because the kids that I have need a functioning, well mother.

[wigginhall]

Well said, Rhiannon.  Presumably, AB and others, believe that you should not make such decisions.   After all, what do you know, compared with him?

[Alan Burns]

Pregnancy and birth are the most dangerous times in life for most women in the West. Even if a healthy baby is carried to term, the consequences of a difficult or botched labour can be painful, humiliating and lifelong. And this happens far more than people realise, partly because women are conditioned not to speak out (pregnancy and birth arexsupposed to be blessings, right?) and partly because of shame and embarrassment.

I’m lucky that I got through mine relatively ok (a doctor told me this is the unspoken benefit of needed c-sections) but there’s no way my body could take another pregnancy. In the vanishingly unlikely event that I got pregnant now I’d have a termination in a heartbeat, not just for my sake, but because the kids that I have need a functioning, well mother.

Of course the health and well being of the mother are factors which must be taken into consideration, but from the eight million abortions performed in this country since 1967, there are a great many mothers who bitterly regret having had the abortion and continue to suffer the consequences.  There are other ways of helping distressed pregnant mothers apart from the heavily promoted solution of abortion.

[ippy]

The sight of people rejoicing in the fact that unborn children in Ireland no longer have the right to live is a sad, very sad indication on the way modern society has lost its way.

Popular opinion can never take away the humanity of the child in its mother's womb,

The thing is Alan, the joy is mostly coming from the now majority of people that don't share your point of view being set free from an old primitive imposed tyranny of a law a law that I would describe as a law that showed it's distinct lack of humanity so many times over the years.

The best thing about this repeal of this old law Alan, is that you're able to continue in your regressive old way and people that don't share your rather cruel and ignorant views can continue on in their ways too, without having laws they don't want inflicted on them; whether you're right or wrong there's nothing wrong with you disproving, as long as that's all you and people that share your view do.

Commiserations to you Alan, ippy.

[SusanDoris]

Of course the health and well being of the mother are factors which must be taken into consideration, but from the eight million abortions performed in this country since 1967, there are a great many mothers who bitterly regret having had the abortion and continue to suffer the consequences.  There are other ways of helping distressed pregnant mothers apart from the heavily promoted solution of abortion.

Oh, really? Actually, your posts on this subject are to me so teeth-frindingly wince-making that  I have already written - - but refrained from posting - - several scathing ones. It is a waste of time though, you are so bounded by your thick, cottonwool barrier to reality that I'm probably wasting energy writing this one too.

Do you really think that, denied good, clear access to safe abortions, 100% of women would refrain from  trying unsafe, positively dangerous methods instead?

[wigginhall]

Yes, ippy, the standard reply to somebody who objects to abortion, is, then don't have one.   With the sub-text, and don't make my decision for me.

[Rhiannon]

Of course the health and well being of the mother are factors which must be taken into consideration, but from the eight million abortions performed in this country since 1967, there are a great many mothers who bitterly regret having had the abortion and continue to suffer the consequences.  There are other ways of helping distressed pregnant mothers apart from the heavily promoted solution of abortion.

It’s true that some women regret their terminations. And another problem is the number of women forced into them by abusive partners, or even parents. But these don’t make up the majority. And something you will rarely hear discussed, if ever, because it is such a huge taboo, are the women who regret becoming mothers.

Every one of us is faced with choices according to circumstance and we have to live with the consequences. That you disapprove is no reason to take choices away. Women do not need to be protected from themselves.

[wigginhall]

Yes, that is the point, taking choice away.   Church and state together, policing women's bodies, what paradise for bigots.

[Spud]

I'm not very clued up about the abortion issue, but I had a thought that might be relevant. Why is it ok to abort a child we know will have poor quality of life, while everything possible is done to save the life of someone who's had a stroke, even if it means they will be left paralyzed and unable to communicate for years afterwards?

[Harrowby Hall]

A child is not aborted. A foetus is aborted.

I suppose the church opposes this because it will be one immature human fewer whose brain it can meddle with ...

[Rhiannon]

A child is not aborted. A foetus is aborted.

I suppose the church opposes this because it will be one immature human fewer whose brain it can meddle with ...

In the early stages it’s an embryo.

[Dicky Underpants]

The sight of people rejoicing in the fact that unborn children in Ireland no longer have the right to live is a sad, very sad indictment on the way modern society has lost its way.

Popular opinion can never take away the humanity of the child in its mother's womb,

What is your view of the situation considering a woman who is shown to be pregnant with a child displaying the features of total anencephaly*, Alan?
Or of a woman who is pregnant as the result of a violent rape which nearly resulted in her own death?

*As a subheading to such tragic medical situations, it might be interesting for you to tell us how you find evidence in them of a righteous, omnipotent God. And how such poor creatures display evidence of 'ensoulment'.

[trippymonkey]

It's that old, old question of ' when is a child a child'? When the baby is born or is it from conception

Nick

[Alan Burns]

In the early stages it’s an embryo.

embryo, foetus, baby, toddler, child, teenager ....

All just man made labels to describe the continuous development of human life which every one of us has gone through.

[Alan Burns]

What is your view of the situation considering a woman who is shown to be pregnant with a child displaying the features of total anencephaly*, Alan?
Or of a woman who is pregnant as the result of a violent rape which nearly resulted in her own death?

*As a subheading to such tragic medical situations, it might be interesting for you to tell us how you find evidence in them of a righteous, omnipotent God. And how such poor creatures display evidence of 'ensoulment'.

I respect the sanctity of all human life, and it is not up to us to pass judgement of the quality of each individual's life.

[Rhiannon]

I respect the sanctity of all human life, and it is not up to us to pass judgement of the quality of each individual's life.

That’s ducking the question.

[Rhiannon]

embryo, foetus, baby, toddler, child, teenager ....

All just man made labels to describe the continuous development of human life which every one of us has gone through.

Not entirely. The first two apply to most mammals and the first applies to most organisms, including plants. Do they have souls too?

[ProfessorDavey]

I respect the sanctity of all human life,

Define 'human life' AB.

and it is not up to us to pass judgement of the quality of each individual's life.

Presumably therefore it is for the individual themselves. In which case I presume you support voluntary, consensual euthanasia.

[ProfessorDavey]

I respect the sanctity of all human life

And do you believe that all stages (e.g. from a fertilised egg through to an adult) deserve equal respect?

[ippy]

I respect the sanctity of all human life, and it is not up to us to pass judgement of the quality of each individual's life.

You're living in some sort of dream world Alan, you let your imagination run silly at times this post of yours is yet another one of those times; how do you know your take on this subject is any better than the judgement of others.

The trouble with judgemental people like yourself Alan, is where this line of thought of yours takes us and it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that there's so many of you that have allowed yourselves to be taken in by this unsubstantiated unsustainable nonsense, that ends up causing so much unnecessary pain and heartache needlessly to so many, when all you need to do is don't get involved if you don't like it.

By the way you still haven't managed to let us know how you've managed to receive all of this complex judgemental info from your Mr Magic man in the sky, such as when this soul you speak of enters the embryo and all of the other godly godly stuff you're always on about, as though you know it all first hand? 

Oh yes, do we still have that little man sitting at the controls inside our heads, never did get an answer to that one?

Commiserations to you Alan, ippy.

[Spud]

A child is not aborted. A foetus is aborted.

I suppose the church opposes this because it will be one immature human fewer whose brain it can meddle with ...

A foetus can rub it's eyes just like a child.... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[Alan Burns]

Just a thought,

I wonder how many of the Irish who voted to repeal the 8th amendment would be alive today if the abortion act of 1967 had been applied to Ireland too.