should all free treatment be stopped for smokers??

[Grace of God]

or heavy drinkers, anyone fat, or with type 2 diabetes. they have caused their own problems..

[Steve H]

Absolutely not. Once we start chipping away at universal free healthcare, it'll be gone before we know it.

[Rhiannon]

No, there’s a good point here. Parents cause problems by having children. Perhaps we should deny medical care for them. After all, no-one asks them to have kids. And old people cause problems by living far too long and being too healthy to die before they become bed blockers and a burden on social care. Perhaps some kind of workhouse is the solution?

(No word of a lie, I once heard a receptionist at my GP’s surgery describe my kids, who got recurrent ENT problems when little, as ‘a burden on the NHS’)

[Grace of God]

Absolutely not. Once we start chipping away at universal free healthcare, it'll be gone before we know it.

yet anyone who refused a vaccine was dangerous and stupid, don't people who cause illnesses class as stupid??

[Sassy]

or heavy drinkers, anyone fat, or with type 2 diabetes. they have caused their own problems..

Are you being deliberately obtuse or just ridiculous?

Treatment is NOT FREE and never has been. Since every person who works had paid into the NHS.
Diabetes is not self inflicted. Even type 2 diabetes is hereditary, just as being fat can also have a medical cause or be hereditary through genetic disposition.  I think everyone has the right to medical treatment and the right to life.

[Steve H]

And another thing - cigarette smokers (not pipe or cigar smokers nearly so much), the obese, heavy drinkers, etc. May cost the NHS more in the short term, but since they tend to die early they save the country the cost of looking after them in frail old age, so, over the whole population, it probably averages out.
And what about those who take part in dangerous sports? They're likely to be super-fit, but may suffer serious injuries. Do we charge them for their treatment too? Once you start charging some patients for their treatment,  where does it all end?

[Grace of God]

Are you being deliberately obtuse or just ridiculous?

Treatment is NOT FREE and never has been. Since every person who works had paid into the NHS.
Diabetes is not self inflicted. Even type 2 diabetes is hereditary, just as being fat can also have a medical cause or be hereditary through genetic disposition.  I think everyone has the right to medical treatment and the right to life.

ok, the other day it seemed pretty universal that anyone who does not take a vaccine is dangerous and stupid, yet those who smoke cause themselves and others great harm, those getting fat and disabled harm themselves and take up time of already over worked medical staff and gp's, type 2 diabetes, according to many gp's is linked with being over weight...
those you claim pay in to the nhs, it is a small percentage of a wage, some never earn a wage, it in no way covers the extensive costs of the long term treatment brought about by their own stupidity...

[Steve H]

ok, the other day it seemed pretty universal that anyone who does not take a vaccine is dangerous and stupid, yet those who smoke cause themselves and others great harm, those getting fat and disabled harm themselves and take up time of already over worked medical staff and gp's, type 2 diabetes, according to many gp's is linked with being over weight...
those you claim pay in to the nhs, it is a small percentage of a wage, some never earn a wage, it in no way covers the extensive costs of the long term treatment brought about by their own stupidity...

Your version of Christianity seems to be a very hard, self-righteous, unforgiving one.

[Grace of God]

Your version of Christianity seems to be a very hard, self-righteous, unforgiving one.

if you have no answer just say so

[Grace of God]

And another thing - cigarette smokers (not pipe or cigar smokers nearly so much), the obese, heavy drinkers, etc. May cost the NHS more in the short term, but since they tend to die early they save the country the cost of looking after them in frail old age, so, over the whole population, it probably averages out.
And what about those who take part in dangerous sports? They're likely to be super-fit, but may suffer serious injuries. Do we charge them for their treatment too? Once you start charging some patients for their treatment,  where does it all end?

die early , you can't be serious, how much do you think cancer treatment costs in the years they need it to stay alive..

if we are in a place where we force people to take vaccines, for the greater good, we should consider banning dangerous sports..

[Steve H]

die early , you can't be serious, how much do you think cancer treatment costs in the years they need it to stay alive..

if we are in a place where we force people to take vaccines, for the greater good, we should consider banning dangerous sports..

I give up. you clearly have a dangerously fascistic attitude to nearly everything. I can understand the attitude of the atheists on here when I read your posts. Happily, I know that the vast majority of Christians are much more tolerant and reasonable.

[wigginhall]

It's Christian love, innit, of a rather right wing variety.

[Grace of God]

I give up. you clearly have a dangerously fascistic attitude to nearly everything. I can understand the attitude of the atheists on here when I read your posts. Happily, I know that the vast majority of Christians are much more tolerant and reasonable.

I'll ask again, why was it so obvious that people should be forced to take vaccines, for the greater good, yet people who have caused themselves harm should be treat freely and not made accountable for their actions...

you seem to be the control freak yet only when it suits your reasoning...

[Anchorman]

ok, the other day it seemed pretty universal that anyone who does not take a vaccine is dangerous and stupid, yet those who smoke cause themselves and others great harm, those getting fat and disabled harm themselves and take up time of already over worked medical staff and gp's, type 2 diabetes, according to many gp's is linked with being over weight...
those you claim pay in to the nhs, it is a small percentage of a wage, some never earn a wage, it in no way covers the extensive costs of the long term treatment brought about by their own stupidity...

Inaccurate. 1) Most obesity is self inflicted....not all.
I am obese. That's due to a pre-existant provable medical condition.
2) Not all type 2 diabetes is self inflicted as a result of obesity, etc. I run a blind club. I know several members who are visually impaired due to type 2 which was not caused by diet, lifestyle or whatever.
Do you wish to distinguish?
Are you trying to be a judge?

[Grace of God]

Inaccurate. 1) Most obesity is self inflicted....not all.
I am obese. That's due to a pre-existant provable medical condition.
2) Not all type 2 diabetes is self inflicted as a result of obesity, etc. I run a blind club. I know several members who are visually impaired due to type 2 which was not caused by diet, lifestyle or whatever.
Do you wish to distinguish?
Are you trying to be a judge?

I am judging no one, that is God's job...
so do you agree those making themselves ill through being obese, drinking or smoking should be taken off free medicine, unless they have a proven medical reason for being fat??

[torridon]

or heavy drinkers, anyone fat, or with type 2 diabetes. they have caused their own problems..

Did Jesus come for sinners ?  Or did he minister only to the self-righteous ?

[Anchorman]

I am judging no one, that is God's job...
so do you agree those making themselves ill through being obese, drinking or smoking should be taken off free medicine, unless they have a proven medical reason for being fat??

No.
'proven medical reasons'? Psychological, psychiatric and other conditions can manifest themselves in the form of addiction to drink, drugs or food. Sometimes that underlying condition is hard to define, let alone diagnose.
Would Christ turn away someone who asked for help?

[jeremyp]

(No word of a lie, I once heard a receptionist at my GP’s surgery describe my kids, who got recurrent ENT problems when little, as ‘a burden on the NHS’)

Well if all the burdens were refused treatment, GP's wouldn't need receptionists.

Universal healthcare is the single greatest thing this country has done for itself since the war. Why do so many people want to dismantle it?

[jeremyp]

ok, the other day it seemed pretty universal that anyone who does not take a vaccine is dangerous and stupid,

I think you are misrepresenting what most people think. I think refusing vaccines is stupid and dangerous, and if it on behalf of your children, negligent too. However, I do not propose that we refuse treatment for unvaccinated people.

The UK has a universal healthcare system which means it is free at the point of delivery. Nobody should be turned away.

[jeremyp]

I am judging no one, that is God's job...

Just saying it doesn't make it true. You definitely are judging people.

so do you agree those making themselves ill through being obese, drinking or smoking should be taken off free medicine, unless they have a proven medical reason for being fat??

Nope.

[Grace of God]

It's Christian love, innit, of a rather right wing variety.

it's a call to wake up fools, those who would make some take vaccines, for the greater good but would not control someone who makes themselves and others ill, hypocrisy seems to be a problem in the topic..

[Grace of God]

Did Jesus come for sinners ?  Or did he minister only to the self-righteous ?

what does that have to do with the subject, other than proving you have nothing to add to it ...

[Grace of God]

I think you are misrepresenting what most people think. I think refusing vaccines is stupid and dangerous, and if it on behalf of your children, negligent too. However, I do not propose that we refuse treatment for unvaccinated people.

The UK has a universal healthcare system which means it is free at the point of delivery. Nobody should be turned away.

and smoking and heavy drinking, eating yourself to disability is not stupid...

so how come people in some opinions should be forced to have a vaccine yet idiotic behaviour in others is acceptable..

[Nearly Sane]

and smoking and heavy drinking, eating yourself to disability is not stupid...

so how come people in some opinions should be forced to have a vaccine yet idiotic behaviour in others is acceptable..

Because Not vaccinating children is a choice in their behalf and it has a specific effect on increasing the likelihood of affecting someone else who cannot be vaccinated or hasn't been vaccinated because of age.

[Grace of God]

Just saying it doesn't make it true. You definitely are judging people.Nope.

in this case it is true, I am judging no one, yet a few days ago nearly everyone was there to agree that not taking a vaccine makes you stupid...

good , so you think we have to help these people who are killing themselves and others, by smoking, drinking and eating to disability...