Hither Green and the 'tributes ' to a dead burglar

[Nearly Sane]

Apparently the flowers have been torn down again this afternoon, and oddly the person doing it has been named on Twitter. My reaction is ' Good for him'.


http://www.theweek.co.uk/92824/hither-green-burglary-vigilante-destroys-tributes-to-intruder-stabbed-by-homeowner

[Rhiannon]

The police don’t agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/11/hither-green-standoff-continues-as-tributes-to-intruder-removed-again

[SusanDoris]

The police don’t agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/11/hither-green-standoff-continues-as-tributes-to-intruder-removed-again

I don't think I do either. In my opinion, the cousin was given far too much air time the other day. She omitted to mention that hercousin, the burglar, was committing an offence and hshould have thought of his wife and children before taking an illegal action. I have not read up on any details of how the man died, but to make him the poor, hard-done-by victim is not the right thing to do.

[Rhiannon]

I don't think I do either. In my opinion, the cousin was given far too much air time the other day. She omitted to mention that hercousin, the burglar, was committing an offence and hshould have thought of his wife and children before taking an illegal action. I have not read up on any details of how the man died, but to make him the poor, hard-done-by victim is not the right thing to do.

The police want the tributes to remain.

[Nearly Sane]

The police don’t agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/11/hither-green-standoff-continues-as-tributes-to-intruder-removed-again

Why should the wishes be respected here? It feels to me like intimidation.

[wigginhall]

I don't see why his kids can't leave tributes. 

[floo]

It is a crazy situation!

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see why his kids can't leave tributes.

Neither do I but that isn't the whole situation.

[Rhiannon]

Neither do I but that isn't the whole situation.

This is my feeling too. Tributes from his kids, ok. The rest is intimidation of the homeowner and the community. I doubt the guy at the centre of it will ever be able to go home.

[Nearly Sane]

This is my feeling too. Tributes from his kids, ok. The rest is intimidation of the homeowner and the community. I doubt the guy at the centre of it will ever be able to go home.

Agree, not getting the police idea here that doesn't reflect that.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

This is my feeling too. Tributes from his kids, ok. The rest is intimidation of the homeowner and the community. I doubt the guy at the centre of it will ever be able to go home.

I agree. The residents should not have to put up with 100s of tributes to a burglar opposite the house of the victim of the attempted aggravated burglary. Vincent came armed with a screwdriver so tributes to him are a form of intimidation IMO. Good for the homeowner in killing him. It must have been distressing for the homeowner.

[Steve H]

I agree. The residents should not have to put up with 100s of tributes to a burglar opposite the house of the victim of the attempted aggravated burglary. Vincent came armed with a screwdriver so tributes to him are a form of intimidation IMO.

I was with you up to here,

Good for the homeowner in killing him.

But this is going too far.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I was with you up to here,But this is going too far.

Ok - I guess I would be ok if the homeowner, while protecting his life, his wife's life and his home had left Vincent with a disability that prevented him form re-offending, rather than killing him.

For me it depends on the victim - in Vincent's case, given he was armed with a screwdriver and was not stealing out of need, I think it's a good thing Vincent is not walking around looking for his next victim. If he went to court he would have been out of prison fairly quickly and free to threaten people with screwdrivers - he could have ended up stabbing the homeowner or giving him a heart attack, or pushed him so he fell and hit his head and died.

So in that sense it's a good outcome that Vincent is not around to cause those kinds of problems. And it would have been hard for the homeowner to have gone through the trauma of stabbing Vincent, so I feel sorry for the homeowner to have to deal with an attempted burglary and then have to stab someone.

[Robbie]

I'veoccasionally wondered what I would do if I was faced with a menacing intruder. I'd certainly want to scare them off and tho' I'm by nature a pacifist, I'd grab something and wave it at them,maybe hit them. A blow can cause death even if not intended.

Did the homeowner mean to kill the intruder or just injure him? I would think the latter & it's unfortunate the guy died, would've been better had he survived & faced a court but what's done is done.

I understand the need for people who loved Vincent to pay tribute to him (his good points which is what they remember most)& commemorate his death but does it have to be at the house he attempted to burgle? No! They could do it privately at home.

[SusanDoris]

Gabriella and Robbie

I pretty much agree with both your posts.
I think the flowers - I heard one reporter, on the PM programme I think, call it a shrine - now that really made me wince -  is rather a part of the somewhat shallow attitude which seems to be current.

[Harrowby Hall]

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here. It was tasteless and insulting for the "shrine" to have appeared in the street where Vincent died. It suggests that his friends/relatives approved of his life style/occupation. He may well have been a loving father - but he was also a poor role model to his children. To place floral tributes to him in the road where he was behaving in an illegal manner was confrontational, to say the least.

Good for the homeowner in killing him.

I find this sentiment totally unacceptable. It is like justifying the death penalty.

Vincent's death was a consequence of his own criminality, but that does not make it acceptable. He carried a weapon - presumably to frighten victims with. I'm sure the homeowner did not intend to kill him but it would have been preferable for him to have been apprehended unharmed.

It appears to be the belief in the culture where carrying knives is common that a knife is for defence. Perhaps this may cause some knife-carriers to consider that  the consequences of using a sharp object are unpredictable.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed here. It was tasteless and insulting for the "shrine" to have appeared in the street where Vincent died. It suggests that his friends/relatives approved of his life style/occupation. He may well have been a loving father - but he was also a poor role model to his children. To place floral tributes to him in the road where he was behaving in an illegal manner was confrontational, to say the least.

Good for the homeowner in killing him.

I find this sentiment totally unacceptable. It is like justifying the death penalty.

Vincent's death was a consequence of his own criminality, but that does not make it acceptable. He carried a weapon - presumably to frighten victims with. I'm sure the homeowner did not intend to kill him but it would have been preferable for him to have been apprehended unharmed.

My main problem with the death penalty is possible miscarriages of justice. Of course I agree that execution is cruel and profoundly sad and in an ideal world it would be better if society has a way of dealing with violent, cruel and sadistic criminals that did not involve taking their life.

I think this situation is different as the homeowner did not kill the wrong person while he was defending himself from an armed intruder. I think that makes the killing acceptable.

I agree he probably did not intend to kill the burglar. I think when faced with an armed intruder, he probably was not intending to put himself and his wife at risk by going in soft - you probably need to do everything possible in that moment to make sure the intruder was going stay down and you can't control the outcome of that - there is every chance you will have to kill the other person. If you half-heartedly fight back all you do is enrage an intruder and probably get yourself stabbed.