Windrush

[Nearly Sane]

The idea that this can be blamed on mistakes by civil servants as opposed to a result of Tory policy is a shocking piece of lying. May should resign.

[Aruntraveller]

We can but live in hope.

The track record of this government however is that they do not accept responsibility for any policies that go wrong. It always comes as a surprise that for example University fees are quite so high. Or that violent crime figures are rising at the same time that police numbers are cut; or that waiting times in hospitals go up because they have cut social care to the bone.

Now while the link between correlation & cause are notoriously difficult to prove, there are enough examples of this for people to start paying attention.

Their attitude - nothing to do with us; look over there at the anti-semitic, Russian loving, nuke hating opposition;  has long been one of misdirection and obfuscation. They are masters of the trade.

You wrote elsewhere you don't know how anyone could vote for Labour presently, which is a valid question; but the much more pertinent question is how can anyone vote for the Tories as they are so inept and so uncaring.

[Nearly Sane]

We can but live in hope.

The track record of this government however is that they do not accept responsibility for any policies that go wrong. It always comes as a surprise that for example University fees are quite so high. Or that violent crime figures are rising at the same time that police numbers are cut; or that waiting times in hospitals go up because they have cut social care to the bone.

Now while the link between correlation & cause are notoriously difficult to prove, there are enough examples of this for people to start paying attention.

Their attitude - nothing to do with us; look over there at the anti-semitic, Russian loving, nuke hating opposition;  has long been one of misdirection and obfuscation. They are masters of the trade.

You wrote elsewhere you don't know how anyone could vote for Labour presently, which is a valid question; but the much more pertinent question is how can anyone vote for the Tories as they are so inept and so uncaring.

Surely both are pertinent. That it seems to me impossible to vote Labour at the moment, does not mean that I think it's possible to vote Tory. Further I don't think this policy went wrong rather they misjudged public opinion. The outcome was deliberate - May should resign.

[floo]

If May is found to be responsible she certainly should resign. The Windrush generation helped rebuild the UK after WW2.

[Aruntraveller]

Surely both are pertinent. That it seems to me impossible to vote Labour at the moment, does not mean that I think it's possible to vote Tory. Further I don't think this policy went wrong rather they misjudged public opinion. The outcome was deliberate - May should resign.

Yes 'wrong' was an incorrect choice of word. Obviously the choices made by the government were deliberate and calculated. It is their 'faux' surprise that annoys and irritates me.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The idea that this can be blamed on mistakes by civil servants as opposed to a result of Tory policy is a shocking piece of lying. May should resign.

Clownshair go of her own volition? Doubt it.

[Nearly Sane]

If May is found to be responsible she certainly should resign. The Windrush generation helped rebuild the UK after WW2.

She was in charge of the home office when the legislation was introduced - she is responsible.

[Nearly Sane]

Clownshair go of her own volition? Doubt it.

Didn't say will, said should.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Didn't say will, said should.

Yes, she's just lurching from one grotesque bollock to another.

[Rhiannon]

The idea that this can be blamed on mistakes by civil servants as opposed to a result of Tory policy is a shocking piece of lying. May should resign.

You could argue this is down to Cameron. She was is Home Secretary doing his bidding.

Whatever, the policy was deliberate and they wouldn’t be reversing it were it not for the outrage of the public and the vocal opposition from some MPs and organisations.

And if any twats talk about deselecting David Lammy for being ‘disloyal to Jeremy’ after this they should be ashamed.

[Nearly Sane]

You could argue this is down to Cameron. She was is Home Secretary doing his bidding.

Whatever, the policy was deliberate and they wouldn’t be reversing it were it not for the outrage of the public and the vocal opposition from some MPs and organisations.

And if any twats talk about deselecting David Lammy for being ‘disloyal to Jeremy’ after this they should be ashamed.

We don't live in a dictatorship, there is both cabinet govt and ministerial responsibility, or rather there should be. Cameron is gone. May was Home Secretary at the time and PM since - she should resign.

The Labour Party in its current state is broken and unelectable

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We don't live in a dictatorship, there is both cabinet govt and ministerial responsibility, or rather there should be. Cameron is gone. May was Home Secretary at the time and PM since - she should resign.

The Labour Party in its current state is broken and unelectable

I don't know about that. I think the GBP just loved being f'd by posh boys.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't know about that. I think the GBP just loved being f'd by posh boys.

What's that got to do with the fuck up in a debate over anti-Semitism where people are accusing supporters of their leader of issuing death threats and rape threats. Or with putting forward motions in the HoC that they abstain on, or vote against. That the Tories ran a racist policy doesn't make the Labour Party electable in their current state.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What's that got to do with the fuck up in a debate over anti-Semitism where people are accusing supporters of their leader of issuing death threats and rape threats. Or with putting forward motions in the HoC that they abstain on, or vote against. That the Tories ran a racist policy doesn't make the Labour Party electable in their current state.

No labour party are electable because of the historically imprinted desire of the GBP to be treated mean, to suffer the monumental hypocrisy of Conservatism on race and ethnicity because as we all know under the Tories Rodney next year we ''could all be Miwionaires, my son''.

[Nearly Sane]

No labour party are electable because of the historically imprinted desire of the GBP to be treated mean, to suffer the monumental hypocrisy of Conservatism on race and ethnicity because as we all know under the Tories Rodney next year we ''could all be Miwionaires, my son''.

I think you mean unelectable but to blame the voters for a party in a death struggle with itself is a further indication of why it's unelectable.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think you mean unelectable but to blame the voters for a party in a death struggle with itself is a further indication of why it's unelectable.

I think you might be slipping into the Tory narrative which is now moving on to only Tories can govern.....The old born to rule schtick. Another manifestation of ''get back to your hutchism''

[Nearly Sane]

I think you might be slipping into the Tory narrative which is now moving on to only Tories can govern.....The old born to rule schtick. Another manifestation of ''get back to your hutchism''

No. false dichotomy - the Tories are a bunch a racist bastards based on the scandal over Windrush - doesn't stop the Labour party being unelectable because it's about to kill itself.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No. false dichotomy - the Tories are a bunch a racist bastards based on the scandal over Windrush - doesn't stop the Labour party being unelectable because it's about to kill itself.

I thought it was dead after Miliband and the Brexit referendum. It survived thanks to Corbyn but we are as a people succumbing to neo feudalism where too many people are beginning to know there place and have become too accepting. Corbyn as far as I get it refuses to comply to the paradigm and has had more success than the Blairite forces with nothing new to offer. Goodness knows Blair himself has been unable to make a dent on his return because he is insufficiently alternative.

[Nearly Sane]

I thought it was dead after Miliband and the Brexit referendum. It survived thanks to Corbyn but we are as a people succumbing to neo feudalism where too many people are beginning to know there place and have become too accepting. Corbyn as far as I get it refuses to comply to the paradigm and has had more success than the Blairite forces with nothing new to offer. Goodness knows Blair himself has been unable to make a dent on his return because he is insufficiently alternative.

What's that got to do with it killing itself over anti Semitism, or puts forwards votes that it abstains on or votes against. You aren't dealing with any of the issues just indulging in whataboutery, and blaming the voters which shows that you think you are dying.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What's that got to do with it killing itself over anti Semitism, or puts forwards votes that it abstains on or votes against. You aren't dealing with any of the issues just indulging in whataboutery, and blaming the voters which shows that you think you are dying.

If voters are prepared to damn a party at the forefront of every progressive move toward racial equality to extinction yet completely forgive the Conservatives what looks like government and institution by racism then that I would move is a pretty damning indictment of the electorate.

[Nearly Sane]

If voters are prepared to damn a party at the forefront of every progressive move toward racial equality to extinction yet completely forgive the Conservatives what looks like government and institution by racism then that I would move is a pretty damning indictment of the electorate.

It's its own MPs that are damning it over antisemitism. How would death threats against those MPs be at the forefront of racial equality? Again you are going down the false dichotomy route

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's its own MPs that are damning it over antisemitism. How would death threats against those MPs be at the forefront of racial equality? Again you are going down the false dichotomy route

It is in those MP's purvue then to be perfectly clear on what they want from the party even if that is to have the issue as an all day barbeque of Jeremy Corbyn.

[Nearly Sane]

It is in those MP's purvue then to be perfectly clear on what they want from the party even if that is to have the issue as an all day barbeque of Jeremy Corbyn.

And what they want is a fight to the death in the party, because they believe other members are threatening o kill them and rape their them - but you think that's electable

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And what they want is a fight to the death in the party, because they believe other members are threatening o kill them and rape their them - but you think that's electable

Anybody found doing that must have the full weight of the law. Labour's membership if you remember is drawn from those who were prepared to stump up £3. If one is saying though that Labour is a party of rapists and murders then that is a complete and disgusting slur and daft conspiracy theory to boot.

I feel you are seeking any justification and accomodation for ploughing on with a local experiment to get rid of Conservatism which has ended up in aiding to entrench it.

[Aruntraveller]

I feel you are seeking any justification and accomodation for ploughing on with a local experiment to get rid of Conservatism which has ended up in aiding to entrench it.

I don't understand this. Are you referring to the SNP? If so, that seems a false argument to me. The SNP would be able to vote with the Labour party if they felt it necessary on any given issue to attempt to defeat the government. If the numbers were right they could form some kind of alliance. Unlikely I realise, but still possible.

Surely quite often politics is local in nature. Be it local to Scotland, N.Ireland, England, Wales or the regions.

I don't see any attempt at justifiying a local experiment by rightly criticizing worrying aspects within the Labour party.  The two simply are not linked.

Your argument sounds profoundly undemocratic to me. Although, admittedly I may have misunderstood your poorly worded post.