Windrush

[Nearly Sane]

Anybody found doing that must have the full weight of the law. Labour's membership if you remember is drawn from those who were prepared to stump up £3. If one is saying though that Labour is a party of rapists and murders then that is a complete and disgusting slur and daft conspiracy theory to boot.

I feel you are seeking any justification and accomodation for ploughing on with a local experiment to get rid of Conservatism which has ended up in aiding to entrench it.

No, I'm not saying that - stop lying. I'm saying that Labour MPs think members supporting the leader have threatened then with death and rape,

[floo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

I would appear the last Labour Government in 2009 decided to get rid of the landing cards. Not that it excuses May's part in this debacle, but it doesn't do Labour any favours either.

[Nearly Sane]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

I would appear the last Labour Government in 2009 decided to get rid of the landing cards. Not that it excuses May's part in this debacle, but it doesn't do Labour any favours either.

Except the landing cards are only significant because of the 2014 act introduced by May. It's her deliberate policy, her responsibility, she should resign and this is just an attempt to hide that by evasion

[floo]

Except the landing cards are only significant because of the 2014 act introduced by May. It's her deliberate policy, her responsibility, she should resign and this is just an attempt to hide that by evasion

True, but it still doesn't do Labour any favours either, especially as they have been claiming it was May who destroyed the cards!

[Aruntraveller]

True, but it still doesn't do Labour any favours either, especially as they have been claiming it was May who destroyed the cards!

Well so far it would appear only to be her word for it. Jacqui Smith and Alan Johnson have no recollection of it. So I think the jury is still out on who destroyed the cards.

The fact is that it was Tory legislation that gave rise to this disgraceful situation. They are responsible for the hurt caused. Not the Labour party and not the civil servants who destroyed the cards.

[Nearly Sane]

True, but it still doesn't do Labour any favours either, especially as they have been claiming it was May who destroyed the cards!

They didn't cause the problem - May did. It's unclear from the report who destroyed the cards rather that the decision was taken under Labour - but since at the time it wasn't a problematic decision because the Tories hadn't introduced the legislation it's fairly irrelevant. The responsibility for this lies with May as Home Scretary at the time of the legislation that caused this - she needs to resign. Her using this as evasion just makes it worse.

[floo]

They didn't cause the problem - May did. It's unclear from the report who destroyed the cards rather that the decision was taken under Labour - but since at the time it wasn't a problematic decision because the Tories hadn't introduced the legislation it's fairly irrelevant. The responsibility for this lies with May as Home Scretary at the time of the legislation that caused this - she needs to resign. Her using this as evasion just makes it worse.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Corbyn didn't deny the claim.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Corbyn didn't deny the claim.

I don't understand this. Are you referring to the SNP? If so, that seems a false argument to me. The SNP would be able to vote with the Labour party if they felt it necessary on any given issue to attempt to defeat the government. If the numbers were right they could form some kind of alliance. Unlikely I realise, but still possible.

Surely quite often politics is local in nature. Be it local to Scotland, N.Ireland, England, Wales or the regions.

I don't see any attempt at justifiying a local experiment by rightly criticizing worrying aspects within the Labour party.  The two simply are not linked.

Your argument sounds profoundly undemocratic to me. Although, admittedly I may have misunderstood your poorly worded post.

But I'm afraid as your post shows, there is a complete lack of perspective over labour which has, through a process undoubtedly involving several Conservatives of note, ended with the Labour Party being the British equivalent of the Nazi party and a pyre with which to permanently roast Corbyn. Given that then. How much ''right'' criticism has there been?

Anybody should be able to spell out what they want from labour, but no. Name me a group that has been absolutely clear in it's expectations of Corbyn.......In my view there are none. They just, seemingly want to milk this.

[Nearly Sane]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Corbyn didn't deny the claim.

Which is irrelevant to the point I made. The cards only become significant post the 2014 racist legislation introduced by May. Her policy created this. Her responsibility - she should resign

[Nearly Sane]

But I'm afraid as your post shows, there is a complete lack of perspective over labour which has, through a process undoubtedly involving several Conservatives of note, ended with the Labour Party being the British equivalent of the Nazi party and a pyre with which to permanently roast Corbyn. Given that then. How much ''right'' criticism has there been?

Anybody should be able to spell out what they want from labour, but no. Name me a group that has been absolutely clear in it's expectations of Corbyn.......In my view there are none. They just, seemingly want to milk this.

And yes, the Tory party put up an obvious trap but it's the Labour Party that threw themselves into it, and while they were doing it Corbyn didn't take the chance to speak. They aren't unelectable because of Corbyn, they are unelectable because they are a party at war

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Corbyn didn't deny the claim.

He probably didn't have the facts to hand.
So far whistleblowers have thrown doubt on Conservative claims.
I find it odd that the documents were thrown away in 2010 chiefly a Tory year and the decision was allegedly made in 2009.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And yes, the Tory party put up an obvious trap but it's the Labour Party that threw themselves into it, and while they were doing it Corbyn didn't take the chance to speak. They aren't unelectable because of Corbyn, they are unelectable because they are a party at war

And of course the Tories are never a party at war.

[Nearly Sane]

And of course the Tories are never a party at war.

Again where am I arguing for the Tories to indulge in your whataboutery?

[Aruntraveller]

But I'm afraid as your post shows, there is a complete lack of perspective over labour which has, through a process undoubtedly involving several Conservatives of note, ended with the Labour Party being the British equivalent of the Nazi party and a pyre with which to permanently roast Corbyn. Given that then. How much ''right'' criticism has there been?

Anybody should be able to spell out what they want from labour, but no. Name me a group that has been absolutely clear in it's expectations of Corbyn.......In my view there are none. They just, seemingly want to milk this.

Oh you are misunderstanding me.

I am sure in my own mind that there is a concerted effort to undermine Corbyn on the issue of anti-Semitism - likely engineered in part by the Tories. However his complete inability to grasp the issue and turn it to his advantage shows either his naivety or incompetence, or both. I admire him (although not always agree with him) on many issues. His economic judgement is imo wanting, although that is not a deal breaker for me as the Tories are at least as bad; but his failure to lay this issue to rest really stinks of some kind of reluctance to act; which I think is due to lack of ability rather than anti-Semitism.

It is the perception created of lack of ability that worries me somewhat.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Oh you are misunderstanding me.

I am sure in my own mind that there is a concerted effort to undermine Corbyn on the issue of anti-Semitism - likely engineered in part by the Tories. However his complete inability to grasp the issue and turn it to his advantage shows either his naivety or incompetence, or both. I admire him (although not always agree with him) on many issues. His economic judgement is imo wanting, although that is not a deal breaker for me as the Tories are at least as bad; but his failure to lay this issue to rest really stinks of some kind of reluctance to act; which I think is due to lack of ability rather than anti-Semitism.

It is the perception created of lack of ability that worries me somewhat.

Im sorry but Labour wrong Tory right is ingrained in the British Psyche because after all ''next year we could all be miwionares, Rodney, My son.''

[Aruntraveller]

Im sorry but Labour wrong Tory right is ingrained in the British Psyche because after all ''next year we could all be miwionares, Rodney, My son.''

You don't have to be sorry.

But Corbyn does at least have to appear competent, to stand a chance of overcoming the implications of your OF&H allusion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You don't have to be sorry.

But Corbyn does, at least have to appear competent to stand a chance of overcoming the implications of your OF&H allusion.

I fear we have another ten years of Conservatism simply because 18 years is a tory innings.

[Aruntraveller]

I fear we have another ten years of Conservatism simply because 18 years is a tory innings.

You need to cheer up.

A weeks a long time in politics and all that. 

[floo]

People are screaming for May to resign, but I can't think of anyone else in her party who is up to the job.

[Nearly Sane]

People are screaming for May to resign, but I can't think of anyone else in her party who is up to the job.

So you think that someone who introduced the legislation that caused the racist approach to Windrush and then isn't taken responsibility for it but is lying by evasion is up to the job of PM?

[floo]

So you think that someone who introduced the legislation that caused the racist approach to Windrush and then isn't taken responsibility for it but is lying by evasion is up to the job of PM?

So who should take her place?

[Nearly Sane]

So who should take her place?

Not my business. Not a Tory party member. I just don't think we should have a lying incompetent racist as PM . You seem to think that's ok.

[Aruntraveller]

I just don't think we should have a lying incompetent racist as PM

That narrows the field more than somewhat.

[floo]

Not my business. Not a Tory party member. I just don't think we should have a lying incompetent racist as PM . You seem to think that's ok.

Where did I say it was ok? I am concerned that if May goes we might be saddled with Johnson, or worse still that idiot Gove!

[Nearly Sane]

Where did I say it was ok? I am concerned that if May goes we might be saddled with Johnson, or worse still that idiot Gove!

Well not resigning makes it ok for her to ne PM. It also makes it ok not to accept responsibility. Given what she has done and continues to lie about she is not fit to be PM. If she doesn't resign it pisses on the office, and upon us.