Trouble at mill

[Walt Zingmatilder]

https://www.atheists.org/2018/04/update-regarding-david-silverman/

[Robbie]

We've been here before Private Frasier. It's irrelevant to me that the guy is an atheist, if he's done something disgusting he will be suitably castigated for it. I don't believe atheists have ever said they are better than others, they're human like anyone else.

I remember the last time you brought up something like this, I asked you many questions & you couldn't or wouldn't get to the point; Iwas convinced you were a WUM & still am.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We've been here before Private Frasier. It's irrelevant to me that the guy is an atheist, if he's done something disgusting he will be suitably castigated for it. I don't believe atheists have ever said they are better than others, they're human like anyone else.

I remember the last time you brought up something like this, I asked you many questions & you couldn't or wouldn't get to the point; Iwas convinced you were a WUM & still am.

Moral superiority to religion and the religious is at the very heart of New atheism and antitheism.

[SteveH]

Trouble at t'mill. Get it right!

[Nearly Sane]

Moral superiority to religion and the religious is at the very heart of New atheism and antitheism.

And at the heart of religion and the religious. Just as well I am none of the religious, New atheism, if that is anything, or antitheist.

[SteveH]

There have been one or two religious people found guilty of sexual shenanegans, and in many cases their sins were covered up for years, whereas the Yank atheists seem to have dealt with their scandal quickly and firmly.

[Robbie]

Quite - but Private WUM likes to bait people. He's done it before, same subject.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

There have been one or two religious people found guilty of sexual shenanegans, and in many cases their sins were covered up for years, whereas the Yank atheists seem to have dealt with their scandal quickly and firmly.

That depends on how far back the allegations against at least two prominent atheists go back.

[Nearly Sane]

That depends on how far back the allegations against at least two prominent atheists go back.

Why?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why?

Because the quickness and firmness of action is a function of how long allegations have been known about by those who could and should take action.

[Nearly Sane]

Because the quickness and firmness of action is a function of how long allegations have been known about by those who could and should take action.

No clue what you are saying there.

[SteveH]

Because the quickness and firmness of action is a function of how long allegations have been known about by those who could and should take action.

No clue what you are saying there.

Seems straightforward enough to me.

[Nearly Sane]

No clue what you are saying there.
Seems straightforward enough to me.

That's nice. What do you think is clear?

[Robbie]

Problem with things like this - as we've seen in recent cases with actors on big & small screen - is proving the allegations & getting people to go public. He became president of the society in 2010 which isn't that long ago. I don't see what being President of the American atheists has any more to do with his misdemeanours other than he was in a position to take advantage of vulnerable people - like so many other powerful people.

He'll be punished now, has lost reputation, what more does anyone want?

[SteveH]

That's nice. What do you think is clear?

The quote within the quote from Vlad the Impartial.

[Nearly Sane]

The quote within the quote from Vlad the Impartial.

And what do you think is clear that it is saying? Because I am at a loss.

[Robbie]

What the Impaler is trying to get at is he thinks there was probably a cover up of several years which makes it worse than if allegations are brought to light and dealt with quickly.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

What the Impaler is trying to get at is he thinks there was probably a cover up of several years which makes it worse than if allegations are brought to light and dealt with quickly.

In cases of this nature, aside from the alleged perpetrator it comes down to a) who knew of the allegations? b) How long did they know before acting on that knowledge? c) How did they act?

[Nearly Sane]

In cases of this nature, aside from the alleged perpetrator it comes down to a) who knew of the allegations? b) How long did they know before acting on that knowledge? c) How did they act?

What are 'cases of this nature'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Quite - but Private WUM likes to bait people. He's done it before, same subject.

In some atheist circles this is being treated as a serious issue.........it isn't just my pet project.

vis
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2018/04/on-the-firing-of-david-silverman/

https://americanhumanist.org/press-releases/aha-cuts-ties-with-lawrence-krauss/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2018/03/lawrence-krauss-the-wall-of-silence-falls/

The AHA statement particularly laments past poor response in these matters IMV.

[Nearly Sane]

In some atheist circles this is being treated as a serious issue.........it isn't just my pet project.

vis
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2018/04/on-the-firing-of-david-silverman/

https://americanhumanist.org/press-releases/aha-cuts-ties-with-lawrence-krauss/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2018/03/lawrence-krauss-the-wall-of-silence-falls/

The AHA statement particularly laments past poor response in these matters IMV.

You getting confused between antitheist and atheist? You are a bit all over the place and not really making any coherent point. Have a digestive, and a wee think about what you are trying to say.

[jeremyp]

Moral superiority to religion and the religious is at the very heart of New atheism and antitheism.

I think it's been established that being an atheist doesn't prevent you from being a bad man. However, what is at issue is what the organisations that these bad men are part of do about it.

One option is to be transparent about it: have an investigation, take action to dissociate the organisation from the person,, turn the evidence over to the police if they have done something potentially illegal.

Another option is to quietly relocate the bad man, bribe or threaten the victims, maintain a wall of silence with respect to the legal authorities.


Guess which of the two options the Roman Catholic Church took? Moral authority, my arse.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think it's been established that being an atheist doesn't prevent you from being a bad man. However, what is at issue is what the organisations that these bad men are part of do about it.

One option is to be transparent about it: have an investigation, take action to dissociate the organisation from the person,, turn the evidence over to the police if they have done something potentially illegal.

Another option is to quietly relocate the bad man, bribe or threaten the victims, maintain a wall of silence with respect to the legal authorities.


Guess which of the two options the Roman Catholic Church took? Moral authority, my arse.

Yes ,and there are numerous threads on this forum concerning Bad priests which tend to go unchallenged or rarely include have diversionary posts.

You are right to flag up the question of who knew, when they knew and what they did about it and in the case of Peter Ball in the Anglican church a former archbishop was sacked from a current post by Archbishop Welby.

And those are the three questions surrounding the Silverman and Krauss cases.
Who knew?
When did they know?
What did they do about it?

[Rhiannon]

This is no different from the Kevin Spacey thing or the countless other scandals coming to light as a result of #MeToo. A man - usually - in a position of power who uses that power to abuse others, and an organisation that is too blinded by the man, to intimidated or just to ignorant to know how to react. You’ll find similar scenarios in schools - is there a conspiracy of silence among teachers? Among estate agents? Among dentists? Because it’s everywhere that someone is in a position to abuse their power.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

This is no different from the Kevin Spacey thing or the countless other scandals coming to light as a result of #MeToo. A man - usually - in a position of power who uses that power to abuse others, and an organisation that is too blinded by the man, to intimidated or just to ignorant to know how to react. You’ll find similar scenarios in schools - is there a conspiracy of silence among teachers? Among estate agents? Among dentists? Because it’s everywhere that someone is in a position to abuse their power.

I think there is a bit of a difference between situations in which no moral authority is being claimed or even where dubious dog eat dog whatever oils the wheels morality is being claimed...and where moral authority is claimed as in the catholic church, The Anglican church, church in general, any atheism which sees religion as the root of evil and Krauss's statements where he claimed that science makes one more moral. Abusers operating in those sorts of contexts are the epitome of wolves in sheep's clothing.