Should Humanist Chaplains be funded by the NHS?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

..says the man who created and patented the recipe. 

Meeowwwwwww.

[ippy]

So would you consider the Humanists a religion since there are NHS paid humanist chaplains?

This post of yours is irrelevant and misleadingly incomplete Vlad?

Regards ippy

[ippy]

Arse-gravy

I'll bet you were one of those not so little naughty children that ran away from where you thought you had been an original thinker when writing your first rude word on a wall somewhere.

Regards ippy

[jeremyp]

Who cares if it does good?

Lots of people apparently. The word "chaplain" seems to be quite emotive.

[jeremyp]

It's a tad unreasonable              imho.

I merely observe that the word "chaplain" has some fairly emotive connotations for some people. If these "chaplains" are not doing religious work in the hospitals, why not call them something different?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I merely observe that the word "chaplain" has some fairly emotive connotations for some people. If these "chaplains" are not doing religious work in the hospitals, why not call them something different?

What, like psycho-electricians?

That would certainly allow non religious groups scope to whine about chaplains again......and, as they say on dragons den..........that is why I'm out.

[ippy]

Lots of people apparently. The word "chaplain" seems to be quite emotive.

The word Chaplain's not emotive to me, you can leave the word chaplain in place or almost any other suitable name you like, most people know what a chaplain is and does; the humanist will be doing similar work only without the supernatural stuff.

Thinking about it, the job description 'Chaplain' has been there for such a long time, why not stick with it?

Regards ippy

[Sassy]

With the appointment by the NHS of a Humanist chaplain as team leader of a hospital chaplaincy. Do people think Humanist chaplains should be funded on the NHS?

No! Most hospital chaplains are from local churches and it is part of their duty.
Why not humanist too?

[ippy]

No! Most hospital chaplains are from local churches and it is part of their duty.
Why not humanist too?

All chaplains should be funded by the organisations that supply them not the NHS, the forces or the prison service chaplains either, we need to remove the religion based fingers from all of the pies they manage to get their grubby little fingers into and anyone else too including Humanists.

Regards ippy.

[Robbie]

I thought the CofE hospital chaplains did receive a salary from the NHS but I could be wrong.

Ippy not all chaplains have 'grubby little hands', that's unkind. Prison chaplains do a great deal of good, they help make the prison an easier place for the staff for a start! The prisoners have somewhere to go for discussions and sometimes singing, of an evening, & enjoy it. It's not about making converts but getting alongside some very disadvantaged people, giving them encouragement & a helping hand in all sorts of ways. Letting them talk too. The staff appreciate anything that contributes to a calmer atmosphere & the prisoners know they can talk to people who don't talk down to them and push them around.

[ippy]

I thought the CofE hospital chaplains did receive a salary from the NHS but I could be wrong.

Ippy not all chaplains have 'grubby little hands', that's unkind. Prison chaplains do a great deal of good, they help make the prison an easier place for the staff for a start! The prisoners have somewhere to go for discussions and sometimes singing, of an evening, & enjoy it. It's not about making converts but getting alongside some very disadvantaged people, giving them encouragement & a helping hand in all sorts of ways. Letting them talk too. The staff appreciate anything that contributes to a calmer atmosphere & the prisoners know they can talk to people who don't talk down to them and push them around.

I keep on underlining that I have no quarrel with the chaplaincy my quarrel is with where the funding comes from and as such you should have seen that my reference about grubby little hands was directed mainly to the C of E and to any other supplier of chaplains religious humanist or from where ever.

Regards ippy

P S, nothing wrong with having chaplains, I object to the state funding almost anything of a religious nature, I'm a secularist.

Regards ippy

[Robbie]

They are on the NHS payroll, average salary £29,256 pa. Nothing spectacular.

You may object to them because they are religious but it's a very demanding job, they have to be around at all times. They also have to eat! They're not running a parish at the same time as being a hospital chaplain, it's a full time job & would be chaplains apply for it as they would for any other job.

If chaplains were purely voluntary they wouldn't be available all the time & probably just pop in once a week.

(Prison chaplains fare worse:- average £27,776 pa.)

[ippy]

They are on the NHS payroll, average salary £29,256 pa. Nothing spectacular.

You may object to them because they are religious but it's a very demanding job, they have to be around at all times. They also have to eat! They're not running a parish at the same time as being a hospital chaplain, it's a full time job & would be chaplains apply for it as they would for any other job.

If chaplains were purely voluntary they wouldn't be available all the time & probably just pop in once a week.

(Prison chaplains fare worse:- average £27,776 pa.)

Not my point Rob, the humanist chaplains should be funded by their organisation and as I keep on saying I'm not planting any nasturtiums on the job chaplains do in their various positions, we could be paying for more doctors, nurses, prison warders etc or any of the other enormous amount of expenses these three services need with the app £26 million we pay for these people in the NHS alone, without the rest for prisons and the armed services.

I'M NOT MAKING ANY COMMENT ABOUT THE WORK DONE BY CHAPLAINS, FOR OR AGAINST! 

Regards ippy

[Sassy]

All chaplains should be funded by the organisations that supply them not the NHS, the forces or the prison service chaplains either, we need to remove the religion based fingers from all of the pies they manage to get their grubby little fingers into and anyone else too including Humanists.

Regards ippy.

God help you if they ever do because being an atheist won't stop them from killing you off.

[Sassy]

I thought the CofE hospital chaplains did receive a salary from the NHS but I could be wrong.

Ippy not all chaplains have 'grubby little hands', that's unkind. Prison chaplains do a great deal of good, they help make the prison an easier place for the staff for a start! The prisoners have somewhere to go for discussions and sometimes singing, of an evening, & enjoy it. It's not about making converts but getting alongside some very disadvantaged people, giving them encouragement & a helping hand in all sorts of ways. Letting them talk too. The staff appreciate anything that contributes to a calmer atmosphere & the prisoners know they can talk to people who don't talk down to them and push them around.

As far as I am aware, ROBBIE,
Hospital visiting is part of their ministry. xx

[Robbie]

Ministers certainly visit parishioners in hospital, Sassy, but they're not hospital chaplains. Being a chaplain is so much more than visiting the sick.

[Gordon]

Interesting - a humanist lead chaplain in an NHS Trust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-45221945/the-first-humanist-lead-chaplain-in-the-nhs

[Shaker]

While reading this article on the same person:

https://tinyurl.com/ybfvhzpe

I found this slightly amusing:

Humanism is increasingly the default position in England when people don’t want to think about theology or religious questions. It has replaced “C of E” as the translation of a muffled “don’t know” in questions about religious identity. It’s not the same as atheism, which implies a much sharper-edged conception of identity. Humanists, you might say, don’t believe in God but think it’s rude to say so."

[Rhiannon]

What's the difference between having a humanist chaplain and having a non-religious counselling, visiting or befriending service available 24/7? I'm not knocking it, just wondering.

[Gordon]

What's the difference between having a humanist chaplain and having a non-religious counselling, visiting or befriending service available 24/7? I'm not knocking it, just wondering.

I suspect that the Chaplaincy service is seen as being part of the formal NHS organisation and is managed as such, and the Christian chaplain in the clip did mention the management aspect.

It may be that the personal encounters are of a similar kind to what religious chaplains deliver but without any religious overtones. That said, the hospital chaplains I encountered never evangelised and were always happy to help support non-religious people - they were invariably an asset and one of them, a retired Church of Scotland minister, has remained a personal friend over the last 30 odd years.

[Aruntraveller]

God help you if they ever do because being an atheist won't stop them from killing you off.

Won't stop who from killing who off?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

Do you think the NHS is killing people off and chaplains are stopping them?

[Rhiannon]

I suspect that the Chaplaincy service is seen as being part of the formal NHS organisation and is managed as such, and the Christian chaplain in the clip did mention the management aspect.

It may be that the personal encounters are of a similar kind to what religious chaplains deliver but without any religious overtones. That said, the hospital chaplains I encountered never evangelised and were always happy to help support non-religious people - they were invariably an asset and one of them, a retired Church of Scotland minister, has remained a personal friend over the last 30 odd years.

Yes, I got that the kind of support is the same but again I’m wondering why it has to be under the title of ‘chaplain’, and again, I’ve no problem with the NHS funding or management of it.

Maybe it’s time to do away with the concept of ‘chaplaincy’ altogether and have the NHS offer this service with or without the religious aspect. That might also bypass the terrible practice of the CofE having thebpower to veto NHS employees on grounds of their private lives.