Should Humanist Chaplains be funded by the NHS?

[SteveH]

No chaplain should be funded by the NHS.

Why? You regularly jump on others who make statements of opinion without reasoning or evidenceto support them, but you are yourself the worst offender!

[ippy]

Have a read of this link, it's the N S S view: https://www.secularism.org.uk/chaplaincy/

Regards ippy

[Gordon]

Because the NHS is about curing people's ailments, which should have priority, especially as it is not doing well financially.

Well-being during illness is about more than pills, scans, therapies and scalpels though: there may also be isolation, fear and uncertainty regarding the future (and in some cases there may not be much future left): in my experience the Chaplaincy service provides an empathetic input to well-being for all who find it helpful irrespective of any religious element, and for those that are religious but are hospital bound I'd say any arrangements to allow them to maintain their religious involvement if that is their wish is in their best interests.

It is primarily about caring for people, and not theology or proselytising (in my experience anyway).

 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Have a read of this link, it's the N S S view: https://www.secularism.org.uk/chaplaincy/

Regards ippy

For starters I take issue with this part

''While seen as an interim measure by some, the creation of one or two humanist or non-religious chaplains is not a solution. It would legitimise the current system of religious discrimination and privilege.''

This suffers from NSS old overstatement/understatement problem here because surely the NHS scheme of non religious chaplain is an area of expansion.

Saying that having non religious chaplains legitimises the current system of religious discrimination and privilege is just nonsense on high heels.

[floo]

Why? You regularly jump on others who make statements of opinion without reasoning or evidenceto support them, but you are yourself the worst offender!

If you say so.

[floo]

Well-being during illness is about more than pills, scans, therapies and scalpels though: there may also be isolation, fear and uncertainty regarding the future (and in some cases there may not be much future left): in my experience the Chaplaincy service provides an empathetic input to well-being for all who find it helpful irrespective of any religious element, and for those that are religious but are hospital bound I'd say any arrangements to allow them to maintain their religious involvement if that is their wish is in their best interests.

It is primarily about caring for people, and not theology or proselytising (in my experience anyway).

 

I take your point.

[Rhiannon]

No chaplain should be funded by the NHS.

Healing just physical - the whole person needs supporting. Chaplains provide a listening ear which hard-pressed medical staff can’t always, even though they very often want to.

[Rhiannon]

I'm not a humanist and I'm fine with it

I didn’t think atheists would object, I was just wondering if it was something that non-humanist atheists would see as useful.

[Nearly Sane]

I didn’t think atheists would object, I was just wondering if it was something that non-humanist atheists would see as useful.

I do - I can't speak for any other non humanist atheists

[ippy]

Healing just physical - the whole person needs supporting. Chaplains provide a listening ear which hard-pressed medical staff can’t always, even though they very often want to.

Can I separate myself from the, 'questioning the work chaplains do or don't do', side of this thread, my only objection is about where the funding of the chaplain service comes from?

Regards ippy

[Nearly Sane]

Can I separate myself from the, 'questioning the work chaplains do or don't do', side of this thread, my only objection is about where the funding of the chaplain service comes from?

Regards ippy

If it's useful and helps people why wouldn't it be funded by the NHS?

[jeremyp]

I'm abstaining. Whatever the decision is, the rules should be the same for all chaplains. However, what are they for? If they are to provide solace of a religious nature, then a humanist chaplain seems like a bit of a chocolate fireguard and religious chaplains would also be of limited use.

However, if they are to provide general support and counselling, why not call them something other than "chaplain"?

[Nearly Sane]

I'm abstaining. Whatever the decision is, the rules should be the same for all chaplains. However, what are they for? If they are to provide solace of a religious nature, then a humanist chaplain seems like a bit of a chocolate fireguard and religious chaplains would also be of limited use.

However, if they are to provide general support and counselling, why not call them something other than "chaplain"?

Who cares if it does good?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

why not call them something other than "chaplain"?

What a strange prejudice to hold.

[Nearly Sane]

What a strange prejudice to hold.

Why is asking a question 'prejudice '?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why is asking a question 'prejudice '?

He obviously finds the word unsatisfactory and is questioning it's use.

[Nearly Sane]

He obviously finds the word unsatisfactory and is questioning it's use.

So why is that 'prejudice'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So why is that 'prejudice'?

It's a tad unreasonable              imho.

[Nearly Sane]

It's a tad unreasonable              imho.

so anything you think is unreasonable is 'prejudice'?

[SteveH]

If you say so.

Typical evasive reply.

[Rhiannon]

Can I separate myself from the, 'questioning the work chaplains do or don't do', side of this thread, my only objection is about where the funding of the chaplain service comes from?

Regards ippy

The NHS’s job is to make people better. If chaplains help in this why shouldn’t there be funding?

[ippy]

The NHS’s job is to make people better. If chaplains help in this why shouldn’t there be funding?

Well it's the old principle of little and often, when these instances are pointed out, in comes the oh they do a good job, etc etc all mostly correct when referring to, in this case, chaplains, which with most cases mentioned yes I agree with these arguments and yes they do mostly good, but this isn't the point.

The religious organisations are very canny, the state is paying for chaplains to do part of the various religious organisations P R work for them; the state is paying the schools to do to do P R work for them, through tax exemptions, another state hand out to them; chancellery laws introduced by past government assist their finances another hand out; oh yes don't forget the chaplains of the army and prison service also, another two hand outs.

It's all little and often some of the hand outs are not that small either but even then having said that what sort of sum do you think of just the ones I've pointed our above add up to in the over all picture of funds they get gratis from the state to enable them to push their agenda.

The benefits religious orders get that I've pointed out above are just the ones that came to mind as I sit here  doing my one fingered typing, I can assure you there are plenty more places that these religious organisations have their their fingers firmly in the till, where I would like to remove their fingers from our state money for good and ever, no other organisation, mostly the C of E, I know of is much better at getting the state to fund their P R work in so many, in purposely hardly noticeable ways, as these religious groups.

Like I said I'm not against the principle of chaplains, more a job for someone that people feel able to talk to,  one of those lovely genuine warm people you get from time to time, that really care about fellow human beings. 

Regards ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well it's the old principle of little and often, when these instances are pointed out, in comes the oh they do a good job, etc etc all mostly correct when referring to, in this case, chaplains, which with most cases mentioned yes I agree with these arguments and yes they do mostly good, but this isn't the point.

The religious organisations are very canny, the state is paying for chaplains to do part of the various religious organisations

So would you consider the Humanists a religion since there are NHS paid humanist chaplains?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well it's the old principle of little and often, when these instances are pointed out, in comes the oh they do a good job, etc etc all mostly correct when referring to, in this case, chaplains, which with most cases mentioned yes I agree with these arguments and yes they do mostly good, but this isn't the point.

The religious organisations are very canny, the state is paying for chaplains to do part of the various religious organisations P R work for them; the state is paying the schools to do to do P R work for them, through tax exemptions, another state hand out to them; chancellery laws introduced by past government assist their finances another hand out; oh yes don't forget the chaplains of the army and prison service also, another two hand outs.

It's all little and often some of the hand outs are not that small either but even then having said that what sort of sum do you think of just the ones I've pointed our above add up to in the over all picture of funds they get gratis from the state to enable them to push their agenda.

The benefits religious orders get that I've pointed out above are just the ones that came to mind as I sit here  doing my one fingered typing, I can assure you there are plenty more places that these religious organisations have their their fingers firmly in the till, where I would like to remove their fingers from our state money for good and ever, no other organisation, mostly the C of E, I know of is much better at getting the state to fund their P R work in so many, in purposely hardly noticeable ways, as these religious groups.

Like I said I'm not against the principle of chaplains, more a job for someone that people feel able to talk to,  one of those lovely genuine warm people you get from time to time, that really care about fellow human beings. 

Regards ippy

Arse-gravy

[Sebastian Toe]

Arse-gravy

..says the man who created and patented the recipe.