'Rape is just bad sex'

[Nearly Sane]

At least  according to Germaine Greer.


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/most-rape-is-just-lazy-germaine-greer-faces-backlash-after-suggesting-punishment-for-rape-should-be-a3852186.html

[jeremyp]

Sometimes I wish people that I admire would just shut the fuck up.

[Nearly Sane]

Sometimes I wish people that I admire would just shut the fuck up.

A-fecking-men. The Female Eunuch is a brilliant book but Greer is turning into a Waitrose version of Katie Hopkins.

[Aruntraveller]

Sometimes I wish people that I admire would just shut the fuck up.

You need a past tense in there somewhere. I also used to admire her, but she has become increasingly confused in her views over the last few years. She seems to be aligning her views to be more akin with those of Anne Widdicombe for reasons unknown.

[Aruntraveller]

A-fecking-men. The Female Eunuch is a brilliant book but Greer is turning into a Waitrose version of Katie Hopkins.

Oh I like that.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh I like that.

Why, thankee, kind sir! I do have to add though that despite my not agreeing with her, not in favour of the no platforming of her.

[jeremyp]

Why, thankee, kind sir! I do have to add though that despite my not agreeing with her, not in favour of the no platforming of her.

Just to clarify: although I wish she hadn't said such a stupid thing, I'll defend her right to be able to say it.

[wigginhall]

With statements like this (rape is bad sex), I always wonder how the speaker knows this.   Is she summarizing her own experience, or guessing?   Maybe, looking for publicity for her book.

[Rhiannon]

It’s really important to read more of what she says.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/30/germaine-greer-calls-for-punishment-for-to-be-reduced

I don’t agree with a lot of it but underlying it is the fact that most men who rape don’t even recognise it as such. And the kind of rapes she describes can be a feature of relationships, marriages, dating, for months, even years. I know. And she’s right, they’ll never see a court room. And until rape - all rape - is seen for what it is women won’t be believed. We don’t take seriously enough the impact of violent rape and don’t make sentences long enough to offer protection from predators, but equally the idea of consent is one that so many people are only now really waking up to.

And as someone who has been raped do I want my rapist to think that his dick is the thing in the world that scares me the most? Fuck that. She’s right; when it comes to rape and coercive sex I’m not traumatised, I’m fucking angry.

[Rhiannon]

Well I’ve killed this thread. 

[Nearly Sane]

Well I’ve killed this thread. 

I did mean to get back to you on this, but wanted to take some time to be clear about what I wanted to say. There is obviously a fear of appearing to mansplain here but my issue isn't with what you've said about Greer having made some wider points but rather that she is experienced enough to know that it's the headlines that will be reported, Now she might take the position that if it raises the issue's profile then that's all to the good but it seems to me that it just muddies the waters.

I also think that she mistakes some of the issues about stuff seeing a court room. Even if we create some idea of a not so serious crime that has a lesser sentence, though branding someone is a shockingly bad idea, then proving it is made no easier.

[Rhiannon]

Greer has always been the same. I think there’s an element with her of wanting to light a touchpaper and see what happens. And in a way she has a point - had she couched this in reasonable language and a measured manner nobody would pay it any attention. At best heads would nod sympathetically and fuck all happen. As an aside, she was stating her view that rape shouldn’t always be seen as the worse thing that can happen to a woman years ago. It’s not new.

Yes, her thinking is muddled. But while all rape is rape, rape varies in its manner and consequences, as indeed does sexual assault. The Pamela Stephenson Connolly column in the Guardian recently has a letter from a woman whose husband regularly used her feet for masturbation in the middle of the night, without her consent. She said that she loves him and I bet he loves her too. It seems to be that what is needed is debate, and education, opening up dialogue between men and women and a rediscovery of respect for each other and ourselves. Maybe we need a soap storyline or something, I don’t know. Get it away from feminist debate and into the mainstream. Then this casual, ignorant rape and assault might just become a thing of the past.

[Nearly Sane]

Greer has always been the same. I think there’s an element with her of wanting to light a touchpaper and see what happens. And in a way she has a point - had she couched this in reasonable language and a measured manner nobody would pay it any attention. At best heads would nod sympathetically and fuck all happen. As an aside, she was stating her view that rape shouldn’t always be seen as the worse thing that can happen to a woman years ago. It’s not new.

Yes, her thinking is muddled. But while all rape is rape, rape varies in its manner and consequences, as indeed does sexual assault. The Pamela Stephenson Connolly column in the Guardian recently has a letter from a woman whose husband regularly used her feet for masturbation in the middle of the night, without her consent. She said that she loves him and I bet he loves her too. It seems to be that what is needed is debate, and education, opening up dialogue between men and women and a rediscovery of respect for each other and ourselves. Maybe we need a soap storyline or something, I don’t know. Get it away from feminist debate and into the mainstream. Then this casual, ignorant rape and assault might just become a thing of the past.

And again not seeing how Greer's comments help here. Attention in itself is useless if you hide the real issue

[Rhiannon]

Which is?

[Nearly Sane]

Which is?

That there are different types of rape. That not all rape is bad sex. That not all bad sex is rape. That the problem in prosecution won't be solved by having an idea of "lesser" rape.

[Rhiannon]

That there are different types of rape. That not all rape is bad sex. That not all bad sex is rape. That the problem in prosecution won't be solved by having an idea of "lesser" rape.

I don’t think these are hidden. The problem is that her ‘tattooing’ solution is bonkers. But the failure of rape convictions hasn’t been improved much with reasonable discussion or law changes. The widespread nature of rape and assault doesn’t go away just because the majority agree violent rape to be abhorrent. Do you think the foot guy in the Graun thought he was committting sexual assault? I shouldn’t think it even crossed his mind. Unfortunately the simplistic approach put out by the popular press has meant that yet again the debate has been lost along with the point. Greer can be infuriating. But things as they are don’t work and I don’t think she can be blamed for pointing it out, although there’s no problem with saying she’s done so badly.

[Nearly Sane]

I don’t think these are hidden. The problem is that her ‘tattooing’ solution is bonkers. But the failure of rape convictions hasn’t been improved much with reasonable discussion or law changes. The widespread nature of rape and assault doesn’t go away just because the majority agree violent rape to be abhorrent. Do you think the foot guy in the Graun thought he was committting sexual assault? I shouldn’t think it even crossed his mind. Unfortunately the simplistic approach put out by the popular press has meant that yet again the debate has been lost along with the point. Greer can be infuriating. But things as they are don’t work and I don’t think she can be blamed for pointing it out, although there’s no problem with saying she’s done so badly.

But pointing things out badly is counterproductive. As I said I think she is aware enough of what she is saying to realise that the points that might be valid in the case will be hidden by choice of argument.