God or Liberation?

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Here is a video about whether it should be God or Liberation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF3vIkvhBWM

Hope you like it.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Shaker]

No, I don't. It's just more of the same old shit for which you use this forum as your own personal platform for your usual bilge.

Another quarter of an hour of my life of vacuous deepities from a pseudo-profound pseudo-reality merchant? No thanks. I have a life to live.

[Sriram]

Go and get your life, Shaker.... Who stopped you?

Why are you wasting your time scoffing at something you don't understand?  Run along...!

[Shaker]

Go and get your life, Shaker.... Who stopped you?

Why are you wasting your time scoffing at something you don't understand?  Run along...!

What special and arcane revelation of "truth" is it that I have to understand?

[ippy]

What special and arcane revelation of "truth" is it that I have to understand?

Shakes he has a science magazine, I'll guess on a subscription, we get little snippets out of the magazine relayed to us via Sriram, looks like he may have taken up a subscription on a philosophy magazine now.

I remember seeing a newspaper titled the 'Psychic News', and wondered why they needed a newspaper?

(It's true there is a newspaper called 'The Psychic News', honest I didn't make it up).

By the way good to see you back.

Kind regards ippy.

[Robbie]

No, I don't. It's just more of the same old shit for which you use this forum as your own personal platform for your usual bilge.

 

Many posters on here do that - loads of them!

I liked it siriam. I'll watch again. Listening to Sadhguru is very relaxing and he's quite humorous - in my opinion. When I go off to bed in a little while I'll think on what he said before drifting off into peaceful sleep.

[Sriram]

Many posters on here do that - loads of them!

I liked it siriam. I'll watch again. Listening to Sadhguru is very relaxing and he's quite humorous - in my opinion. When I go off to bed in a little while I'll think on what he said before drifting off into peaceful sleep.

Thanks Robbie.

Yes...Sadhguru can be quite interesting.  He puts things in simple ways that can be revealing.  All videos may not be equally interesting or acceptable but some of them are very good.

His point about mukti (liberation) is true in India.  Hinduism is about liberation of the soul, freeing it from its animal nature of endless want. Its not about faith in a God.   The various gods and deities we have are only a means to this end. 

The ultimate source of all creation is seen more as a level of Consciousness (Brahman) than as an individual entity.  This source is seen as existing in every cell and atom, somewhat like the String in String theory, that is believed to form the foundation and source of everything.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Shaker]

Animal nature ... who'd have guessed 

[ippy]

Thanks Robbie.

Yes...Sadhguru can be quite interesting.  He puts things in simple ways that can be revealing.  All videos may not be equally interesting or acceptable but some of them are very good.

His point about mukti (liberation) is true in India.  Hinduism is about liberation of the soul, freeing it from its animal nature of endless want. Its not about faith in a God.   The various gods and deities we have are only a means to this end. 

The ultimate source of all creation is seen more as a level of Consciousness (Brahman) than as an individual entity.  This source is seen as existing in every cell and atom, somewhat like the String in String theory, that is believed to form the foundation and source of everything.

Cheers.

Sriram

That's all very well as an idea, wouldn't it be more reasonable, make sense, to base your ideas on evidence.

String'll remain a theory until someone manages to secure some evidence, in the mean time, 'theory'.
 
It's also nowhere near as easy to dismiss criticism of a theory with a curt 'cheers'.

Regards ippy. 

[Maeght]

That's all very well as an idea, wouldn't it be more reasonable, make sense, to base your ideas on evidence.

String'll remain a theory until someone manages to secure some evidence, in the mean time, 'theory'.
 
It's also nowhere near as easy to dismiss criticism of a theory with a curt 'cheers'.

Regards ippy.

In science something can't be a theory without evidence ippy. In mathematics - then okay - so is String Theory a scientific theory or an hypothesis or what?

[Robbie]

Not a question of putting my faith in, Ippy; I just said I liked it, found it interesting and it was relaxing. Some of what he said seemed like common sense to me. I'll have another look later. I didn't like - or understand - the rude way sririam's contribution was dismissed considering some of the stuff posted by others on here.

[ippy]

Not a question of putting my faith in, Ippy; I just said I liked it, found it interesting and it was relaxing. Some of what he said seemed like common sense to me. I'll have another look later. I didn't like - or understand - the rude way sririam's contribution was dismissed considering some of the stuff posted by others on here.

I was more going toward Sriram with that post than toward your good self Rob, I don't dislike Sriram, at least he does seem to try to make his offering look rational even the ones he bases on knowledge that's not available wherever you may chose to look.

Regards ippy

[Rhiannon]

What's wrong with being an animal?

[Shaker]

What's wrong with being an animal?

Very bad juju for Sriram, my goodness. There's something shameful to him about it - it's something to (try to - as though you can!) get away from at all costs. Do a search through Sriram's posts for the word animal and you consistently turn up this sort of thing:

Spirituality is about disciplining our animal nature and bringing out our higher universal nature.

When our natural 'animal' instincts dictated our values and behavior it was religions and religious teachers that emphasized love, tolerance, equality, non violence and so on.  They made us evolve a culture that made us more and more different from animals. They made us civilized!

It is also observed that as people eliminate their lower levels of consciousness through prayer, they automatically become less animal like and more loving and tolerant and selfless. They become more empathetic.

The basis of all spirituality (common to all religions) is about eliminating our animal nature and developing more human/divine qualities

I know we have many similarities with animals because of our common origin but.... whether you like it or not...that is what we have been trying to eliminate all through history with our 'civilized societies'.

In fact that is what civilization is all about......becoming less animal [...] Calling ourselves animals wrongly re-emphasizes our past that we have branched away from long ago. We are never going back! It is regressive to continue to think of ourselves as animals (and never mind scientists).

All religions insist on fasting too as a form of self control. These are all means of self discipline....that make us develop beyond our animal urges.

Hinduism is about liberation of the soul, freeing it from its animal nature of endless want.

Spiritual philosophy and mysticism gave birth to Yoga, Pranayama, meditations and other practices. It is based on a spiritual explanation of life.

These methods are a way of eliminating our base desires, competitiveness and other animal tendencies.

16. Do not be a slave to your animal needs and pleasure seeking. Discipline  and reduce your needs & desires.

Spiritual practices and religions have always tried to wean us away from our animal tendencies.

It is our animal tendencies that keep us in bondage and in a cycle of eternal need gratification.

We have to control our inherent animal tendencies to attain salvation and freedom.

1. Evil is what we normally associate with animal instincts. The further back we go in the animal kingdom (lower animals, insects etc), the more evil the behavior is considered. Maybe some of these instincts are still alive in some people and are strong enough to influence their behavior. 

2. The pleasure principle. Hunger and sex are basic instincts but animals indulge in them more for survival and reproduction than pleasure.  Humans indulge in them largely for pleasure and it is this that is considered as the seed of most evil. How and why this pleasure principle arose and how it became dysfunctional,  needs to be studied. 

3. Rationality can also sometimes contribute to evil because rational thinking is fundamentally divorced of any morality.

4. Fanaticism can also contribute to evil. It can be seen as a form of madness.

PS: Let me clarify that I am talking about animal instincts not about animals as evil.  Animal instincts in humans is considered as evil. Examples. Killing a rival male for a female. Killing of cubs of rival males and mating with the female. Abandoning disabled newborns. Animal behavior in humans is usually evil.

He just can't stand the idea of being an animal, really. Which puts him in the same league as the nuttier, typically American creationists.

[Rhiannon]

But a lot of the animal stuff is fun. And I look at my cat and I swear she's having more of a blast than I am.

[Shaker]

But a lot of the animal stuff is fun. And I look at my cat and I swear she's having more of a blast than I am.

Indeed. But see above - see what he says ... again ... and again ... and again ... and again.

[Sriram]

But a lot of the animal stuff is fun. And I look at my cat and I swear she's having more of a blast than I am.

Great then! It is said that our inner most desires will be fulfilled in the next birth.  Maybe you will be reborn as a cat! 

All the experiences and progress wasted though! Having to relive everything all over again.....  Have fun!

[Rhiannon]

Great then! It is said that our inner most desires will be fulfilled in the next birth.  Maybe you will be reborn as a cat! 

All the experiences and progress wasted though! Having to relive everything all over again.....  Have fun!

Coming back as a cat would be a reward, not a penance.

[Shaker]

Coming back as a cat would be a reward, not a penance.

Especially in my house.

[Sriram]

Hey...thanks Shaker. You have dug up some of my old posts from various threads. Great!

I particularly like one para from what you have quoted.....

"I know we have many similarities with animals because of our common origin but.... whether you like it or not...that is what we have been trying to eliminate all through history with our 'civilized societies'.

In fact that is what civilization is all about......becoming less animal [...] Calling ourselves animals wrongly re-emphasizes our past that we have branched away from long ago. We are never going back! It is regressive to continue to think of ourselves as animals (and never mind scientists)."

Think about that!

[Shaker]

Why? It was horseshit the first time round.

[Rhiannon]

That quote seems to be saying it's regressive to think of ourselves as scientists.

[Shaker]

Wouldn't surprise me one little bit.

[Sriram]

Why? It was horseshit the first time round.

Ok then, don't think about it. I just wish you wouldn't get so insecure about these ideas. 

Some of the ideas may threaten some of your memes but that's something you have to learn to take. We are living in a civilized world after all!

[Rhiannon]

Ok then, don't think about it. I just wish you wouldn't get so insecure about these ideas. 

Some of the ideas may threaten some of your memes but that's something you have to learn to take. We are living in a civilized world after all!

It's not actually uncivilised to acknowledge that we are animals. It's what comes with maturity. Fighting it is believing in a fairy tale.