God or Liberation?

[Shaker]

Ok then, don't think about it. I just wish you wouldn't get so insecure about these ideas. 

Some of the ideas may threaten some of your memes but that's something you have to learn to take. We are living in a civilized world after all!

Meme ...you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The only one who is threatened around here is you - by your inescapable animality. Evidence above.

[Shaker]

It's not actually uncivilised to acknowledge that we are animals. It's what comes with maturity. Fighting it is believing in a fairy tale.

Precisely.

[Sriram]

Great then. Have fun! 

Cheers.

Sriram

[Robbie]

Do you not believe we are part of the animal kingdom then sririam, albeit on a different level intellectually and in other respects?

You have some respect for animals in that you don't eat them!

I emphatically would not like to come back as a cat (even if I believed that was possible); in my adult life I've had two cats and one dog, all dead now, and looked after them extremely well but plenty of people do not take care of their animals. You only have to look at the Dogs Trust and Cats Protection League sites - plenty of other animal charity sites too - to see that. It's quite horrifying. So I am more than happy to be and remain a homo sapien. I do believe we evolved from other animals but that's another story.

Seriously this surely isn't something to be steamed up about - there's a thread about evolution for anyone who wants to do that - and has little to do with the youtube link initially posted by sririam, unless I missed something. I do intend to watch it again.

(Ippy I wasn't meaning you.)

[ippy]

In science something can't be a theory without evidence ippy. In mathematics - then okay - so is String Theory a scientific theory or an hypothesis or what?

Sorry Maeght, can't quite see where I've indicated anything that would contra this post of yours?

Regards ippy

[Maeght]

Sorry Maeght, can't quite see where I've indicated anything that would contra this post of yours?

Regards ippy

Because you said String'll remain a theory until they find some evidence. I wasn't necessarily saying you were wrong as I know String theory can be consider as a mathematical theory and a Scientific hypothesis so posted to see what the response to that was.

[Rhiannon]

Do you not believe we are part of the animal kingdom then sririam, albeit on a different level intellectually and in other respects?

You have some respect for animals in that you don't eat them!

I emphatically would not like to come back as a cat (even if I believed that was possible); in my adult life I've had two cats and one dog, all dead now, and looked after them extremely well but plenty of people do not take care of their animals. You only have to look at the Dogs Trust and Cats Protection League sites - plenty of other animal charity sites too - to see that. It's quite horrifying. So I am more than happy to be and remain a homo sapien. I do believe we evolved from other animals but that's another story.

Seriously this surely isn't something to be steamed up about - there's a thread about evolution for anyone who wants to do that - and has little to do with the youtube link initially posted by sririam, unless I missed something. I do intend to watch it again.

(Ippy I wasn't meaning you.)

Do you really think anyone seriously wants to come back as a cat? Or that those of us who joked about it actually think 'coming back' as anything is even a possibility?

This isn't about whether evolution is true or not, it is about acknowledging what we are. We remain animal; homo sapiens is just the classification for the kind of animal that we are. It's not a bad thing. The problem is that by denying our animalistic nature - that we rely on the same things for survival - we also disconnect from our reliance on the natural world and see it as something to pollute and exploit rather than handle with care.

[ippy]

Do you not believe we are part of the animal kingdom then sririam, albeit on a different level intellectually and in other respects?

You have some respect for animals in that you don't eat them!

I emphatically would not like to come back as a cat (even if I believed that was possible); in my adult life I've had two cats and one dog, all dead now, and looked after them extremely well but plenty of people do not take care of their animals. You only have to look at the Dogs Trust and Cats Protection League sites - plenty of other animal charity sites too - to see that. It's quite horrifying. So I am more than happy to be and remain a homo sapien. I do believe we evolved from other animals but that's another story.

Seriously this surely isn't something to be steamed up about - there's a thread about evolution for anyone who wants to do that - and has little to do with the youtube link initially posted by sririam, unless I missed something. I do intend to watch it again.

(Ippy I wasn't meaning you.)

Rob/Sriram, a bit to each of you

The ippy part at the end of your post Rob?

Don't start on reincarnation with Sriram, Rob, it's a really ponderous subject full of silly surprises, quite obviously man made by someone with a really vivid imagination.

He'll no doubt tell you it goes through all sorts of stages with something about the development of our spirit or something like that, it doesn't matter how near or far I'm away from his ideas about reincarnation it's so preposterously daft it's not worth pursuing and as such it matters not if you get the details of the prescribed version or versions wrong.

Our western beliefs are generally daft enough and then there's reincarnation plus Blue elephant headed men that I'm lead to believe hang around with flying rats.

Must be something to do with where the sunlight's much brighter in India whereas we occasionally see the fabled pink Elephants with our much more muted version of the sun?

Sorry Sriram these religions seem so obviously man made to me I just cannot take any of them seriously at the belief level, apart from that I take the secular view of all of them, Unlike Vlad I'm certain you understand the secular view, well that's me.

Regards ippy

[Robbie]

Rhi: No  I didn't seriously think anyone would want to 'come back' as a cat or even that we do 'come back'. I knew you were joking but it made me think about it hypothetically.

Ippy, what you say about religions being man made is exactly what Sadhguru said in the youtube clip.

Oh and Ganesh is not always portrayed as blue https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=ganesh+pictures&fr=yhs-itm-001&hspart=itm&hsimp=yhs-001&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-L4CHZ2a-F0I%2FUFmuRbkHN2I%2FAAAAAAAAgKk%2FcX_LpkInhhY%2Fs1600%2FHigh-Quality-Lord-Ganesha-Wallpaper-HD.jpg#id=1&iurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-L4CHZ2a-F0I%2FUFmuRbkHN2I%2FAAAAAAAAgKk%2FcX_LpkInhhY%2Fs1600%2FHigh-Quality-Lord-Ganesha-Wallpaper-HD.jpg&action=click

[ippy]

No  I didn't seriously think anyone would want to 'come back' as a cat or even that we do 'come back'. I knew you were joking but it made me think about it hypothetically.

Ippy, what you say about religions being man made is exactly what Sadhguru said in the youtube clip.

Oh and Ganesh is not always portrayed as blue https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=ganesh+pictures&fr=yhs-itm-001&hspart=itm&hsimp=yhs-001&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-L4CHZ2a-F0I%2FUFmuRbkHN2I%2FAAAAAAAAgKk%2FcX_LpkInhhY%2Fs1600%2FHigh-Quality-Lord-Ganesha-Wallpaper-HD.jpg#id=1&iurl=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-L4CHZ2a-F0I%2FUFmuRbkHN2I%2FAAAAAAAAgKk%2FcX_LpkInhhY%2Fs1600%2FHigh-Quality-Lord-Ganesha-Wallpaper-HD.jpg&action=click

I'm not that sure that I suggested that you held any particular belief Rob, reincarnation or any other belief?

Regards ippy

[Sriram]

Do you not believe we are part of the animal kingdom then sririam, albeit on a different level intellectually and in other respects?

You have some respect for animals in that you don't eat them!

I emphatically would not like to come back as a cat (even if I believed that was possible); in my adult life I've had two cats and one dog, all dead now, and looked after them extremely well but plenty of people do not take care of their animals. You only have to look at the Dogs Trust and Cats Protection League sites - plenty of other animal charity sites too - to see that. It's quite horrifying. So I am more than happy to be and remain a homo sapien. I do believe we evolved from other animals but that's another story.

Seriously this surely isn't something to be steamed up about - there's a thread about evolution for anyone who wants to do that - and has little to do with the youtube link initially posted by sririam, unless I missed something. I do intend to watch it again.

(Ippy I wasn't meaning you.)

Robbie,

We are 'animals', is just a classification.  We are vertebrates, we are mammals, we are primates, we are living organisms.....et al.

And we are also Homo Sapiens, as distinct from other species. If some people don't accept that distinction, they really have a problem. And if someone feels that their cat's life is better than their own, I can only offer my sympathies. 

Hindus don't just believe that we have evolved from animals biologically, we even believe that each of us has lived an earlier life as an animal. We believe animals are conscious and intelligent and are a part of our spiritual evolutionary process.  So, animals are very much a part of our existence and environment. Large number of Indians are vegetarians because we consider them as our kin.

Far more inclusive and millennia earlier than any Western idea, needless to add!

But that is quite different from stubbornly retaining animal qualities in ourselves. The very process of spiritual evolution is meant to move away from our animal nature of individuality to universal welfare.

As we progress through different stages in school we are expected to shed certain qualities and become more mature.  If we stubbornly insist on retaining our earlier qualities, we will become retarded and the whole purpose of the schooling will be lost.   

I'll now leave the thread to ippy and his favorite blue elephant!!! 

Cheers.

Sriram

[Robbie]

Good morning. Thanks for explaining that sririam, I didn't know. It's very interesting to me.

[Sriram]

Good morning. Thanks for explaining that sririam, I didn't know. It's very interesting to me.

If you are interested, you could try this article about evolution and Hindu mythology.

https://tsriramrao.wordpress.com/2012/07/03/evolution-and-spirituality/

[ippy]

Robbie,

We are 'animals', is just a classification.  We are vertebrates, we are mammals, we are primates, we are living organisms.....et al.

And we are also Homo Sapiens, as distinct from other species. If some people don't accept that distinction, they really have a problem. And if someone feels that their cat's life is better than their own, I can only offer my sympathies. 

Hindus don't just believe that we have evolved from animals biologically, we even believe that each of us has lived an earlier life as an animal. We believe animals are conscious and intelligent and are a part of our spiritual evolutionary process.  So, animals are very much a part of our existence and environment. Large number of Indians are vegetarians because we consider them as our kin.

Far more inclusive and millennia earlier than any Western idea, needless to add!

But that is quite different from stubbornly retaining animal qualities in ourselves. The very process of spiritual evolution is meant to move away from our animal nature of individuality to universal welfare.

As we progress through different stages in school we are expected to shed certain qualities and become more mature.  If we stubbornly insist on retaining our earlier qualities, we will become retarded and the whole purpose of the schooling will be lost.   

I'll now leave the thread to ippy and his favorite blue elephant!!! 

Cheers.

Sriram

Sriram, when you wrote: 'I'll now leave the thread to ippy and his favourite blue elephant!!!  '.

Did you mean the Little man with the large head of a blue Elephant the one that likes to hang around with a flying rat, you know the blue Elephant man you tell me that millions of Hindus believe in?

Hell of a way to promote your beliefs Sriram, mmm, Blue Elephants of course it's all starting to make sense now, mmmmm

Regards ippy

What sensible level headed beliefs you hold Sriram

[Robbie]

Ganesh is not necessarily portrayed as blue ippy! You've been told that umpteen times. Also he is symbolic.

Ganesh:- God of New Beginnings, Success and Wisdom
Remover of Obstacle

Sririam, thanks for link. When I've cooled off and have a little time to myself I will open your link and read.

[ippy]

Ganesh is not necessarily portrayed as blue ippy! You've been told that umpteen times. Also he is symbolic.

Ganesh:- God of New Beginnings, Success and Wisdom
Remover of Obstacle

Sririam, thanks for link. When I've cooled off and have a little time to myself I will open your link and read.

Rob, when or if considering a figure of an Elephant headed man I suppose the colour of this creature's head would have to be of major importance?

Synbolicks would be a better word to describe this figure and would be nearer to the point.

If there were the slightest piece of evidence that could or would confirm any of these strange odd to me beliefs I would find it that much easier to be a little bit more charitable to them but the likelihood of any of them being able to substantiate any of their superstition based ideas/parts is unlikely to ever rise above zero.

With talking snakes, feeding the 5000 from a few fish, Elephant headed men, riding up into the sky on winged horse, parting the waves and on and on and on we're supposed to take these beliefs seriously; seriously Rob? I don't think so.

Regards ippy