Author Topic: Climate change is upon us....  (Read 66896 times)

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2018, 09:49:28 AM »
I don't think that simply blaming the existence of plastics and other materials is really appropriate. These substances exist and they make a contribution to the quality of our everyday life. The meaning and implications of recycling need to be re-examined.

I can't talk about India but the situation that exists in the UK is that there is a lot of talking about recycling but precious little thinking about recycling. Central government expects - places a duty on - local government to recycle waste but (as far as I am aware) apart from setting targets provides no guidelines or principles to be followed by local authorities. Until recently, it would seem, the most frequent practice was to bundle waste up and send it to China. There have been reports that some firms contracted to dispose of waste simply put it on board ship and dumped it at sea. (Can anyone can provide supporting evidence for this?)

What the UK needs is a firm, responsible, overarching recycling policy with recommended practices. I recall hearing someone on the radio a few weeks ago talking about taking plastic waste and rendering it back into its original hydrocarbon state - thereby making it available for forming into new plastic products.

Recycling is an area with precious little joined-up thinking.
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Nearly Sane

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Spud

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2018, 01:54:57 PM »
Hi everyone,

Here is an article about this. Climate change has finally 'hit home' for many in the developed world...

......



I don't know if the article mentions the elephant in the room, which is the increasing global population. People have to maintain a body temperature of 37 degrees, and so they will have to use fuel. They will also emit greenhouse gases. They have to cut down trees to plant crops, and so on. So there is no point in trying to change peoples' lifestyles without including a global population control measure.

Assuming that most people would oppose this, I think the eventual outcome will be that natural disasters may eventually cause the population to plateau out.

Sriram

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2019, 06:33:02 AM »


Climate change is getting worse than earlier thought.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/25/opinions/climate-change-getting-worse-intl/index.html

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To get a full grasp of climate change, you need to take a geological perspective. Wind the clock back all the way through human history, past the Romans and through the Stone Age, to the time before modern humans evolved, and our ape ancestors roamed in Africa.

Roughly three million years ago, in an epoch called the Pliocene, was the last time carbon dioxide levels were as high in the atmosphere as they are now. In other words, today's CO2 concentrations -- at about 410 parts per million -- are higher than at any time during the existence of Homo sapiens.

But it's the rate of change that is really off the charts, even geologically. Humans are now transferring 10 billion tonnes of carbon from the earth's crust -- in the form of combusted coal, oil and gas -- into the atmosphere each year.

When I wrote Six Degrees back in 2007 I felt that there was at least an odds-on chance of stabilizing global temperatures at or below 2 degrees Celsius, the policy target that was later agreed by world leaders at the Paris climate conference in 2015.

This now looks deluded. Achieving the two-degrees target would require the whole world to cut its net carbon emissions to zero by mid-century, and to go carbon-negative -- somehow hoovering up hundreds of billions of tonnes of extra carbon dioxide using technology yet to be invented -- from the atmosphere for decades thereafter.

In the real world, the opposite is happening. Emissions reached a new record last year, dragging us ever closer to the worst-case scenarios employed by climate models, which yield four degrees or more by the end of this century.

There is no known geological precedent, for at least the last half-billion years of the history of life on earth, for climate change of the magnitude now projected this century to take place over such a short period of time.

To think that young people alive today will experience all of this within their lifetimes is an extraordinary thought indeed.

***********

jeremyp

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2019, 09:01:27 AM »

The link brings out how beef production is one of the highest contributors to emissions leading to warming.
No it doesn’t the chart only compares beef with other forms of food production.
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jeremyp

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2019, 09:03:39 AM »
I downloaded data from the UN to do my own analysis of beef consumption by continent over time; preliminary result here :
 
https://datastudio.google.com/reporting/1XBG-KkCNd5VhI3ovfDmoixr_UKWJ3QnU/page/MGXd

It shows annual average consumption per head is in decline globally since a peak around 1976.  However I haven't yet factored in total population by continent and trends in population by continent.  Although the major beef eating countries are declining in consumption, lower income countries are bucking that trend with a steady increase in both consumption per head and total population.

In terms of both calorie and protein yield per hectare, it is far more efficient in terms of food economics to grow crops on the land rather than grass it and put cows on there.  In the context of global food security, and also in the context of climate change, deploying cows on your land makes no sense; it is an extravagance that the world cannot continue to afford.

With that in mind I am in process of creating a petition requesting the UK government consider raising a climate change levy on beef and dairy produce.  Will post up a link when it is approved and live for anyone who would like to support it.
Not all agricultural land is suitable for arable.
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torridon

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2019, 05:03:18 PM »
Not all agricultural land is suitable for arable.

No doubt.  Some would be suitable.  In the context of the UK I would imagine most pastureland given over to dairy and beef herds could be turned into arable land and it could also be reverted to forestry to act as a natural carbon sink.  With sheep farming the equations would be different, hill farmers can put sheep on bleak uplands and produce wool and lamb where growing crops would be near impossible.  That is land that could be reforested also on the other hand.  All those sheep turn the land into a barren desert in ecological terms and there would be value in terms of biodiversity as well as climate mitigation.  The UK is one of the most deforested lands in Europe, around 12% forest cover if I remember correctly, which is well short of what would be 'natural' (100%)

Aruntraveller

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2019, 10:52:50 AM »
Thoughtful and thought-provoking piece here:


https://tinyurl.com/A-Burning-World
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Steve H

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2019, 12:20:14 PM »
As John Seymour, the self-sufficiency doyen, once pointed out, arguments about livestock taking up more land than crops ignore the stiff that comes out of the other end of livestock, which is of great value in growing crops.
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torridon

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2019, 12:57:41 PM »
Thoughtful and thought-provoking piece here:


https://tinyurl.com/A-Burning-World

A depressing read and I don't really share the author's optimistic end note, I am thinking that is merely a continuation of his delusion. We can see in Brexit and in Hungary and in Trump's America signs of how we react to the stresses of immigration and yet the numbers of current refugees are negligible compared to projections for mid-century and later by which time many densely populated lands will be lost to the ocean.  Part of our shared delusion is our faith in technology and our faith in humanity, that we can do the right thing, as embodied by internationlist institutions like the League of Nations and the United Nations all very noble and aspirational but in the post war period we could afford nobility and internationalist aspirations.  When are are beseiged by overwhelmuing numbers our humanitarian aspirations will go out the window and the cooler richer western nations will resort to ever more desperate measures to keep out the poor and the desparate. I don't think we can avoid this; despite all the rhetoric around greening our economies our CO2 levels are still rising. We are incapable of rising to this challenge and acting as one.

Spud

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2019, 04:20:15 PM »
Do you think that, at this stage, any changes we make in our life styles or even Govt. policy changes are going to make any difference? I don't think so.
We should plant trees and stop destroying the forests, and teach kids about why it's necessary to do so.

Spud

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2019, 04:24:47 PM »
To get a full grasp of climate change, you need to take a geological perspective. Wind the clock back all the way through human history, past the Romans and through the Stone Age, to the time before modern humans evolved, and our ape ancestors roamed in Africa.
If our ancestors had been apes I doubt we would be typing on this forum.

Roses

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2019, 04:36:47 PM »
If our ancestors had been apes I doubt we would be typing on this forum.


Why?
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Spud

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2019, 04:54:34 PM »

Why?

Because we would be apes, which can't read and write or type.

Roses

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2019, 05:09:33 PM »
Because we would be apes, which can't read and write or type.

Apes can do a lot more than you think they can, and in time may be able to do what we do today.

When the human ape came into existence about 200,000 years it wouldn't have been more evolved than some of the brightest apes today.
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Spud

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2019, 05:12:18 PM »
Did they give you the all clear with driving LR?

Roses

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2019, 05:14:58 PM »
Did they give you the all clear with driving LR?


Yes, but what has that got to do what we have just been discussing?
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Stranger

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2019, 06:30:52 PM »
Because we would be apes, which can't read and write or type.

We are apes, Spud.

Hominidae

The Hominidae (/hɒˈmɪnɪdiː/), whose members are known as great apes or hominids, are a taxonomic family of primates that includes eight extant species in four genera: Pongo, the Bornean, Sumatran and Tapanuli orangutan; Gorilla, the eastern and western gorilla; Pan, the common chimpanzee and the bonobo; and Homo, which includes modern humans and its extinct relatives (e.g., the Neanderthal), and ancestors, such as Homo erectus.
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jeremyp

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2019, 06:59:32 PM »
Because we would be apes, which can't read and write or type.
The species of ape called Homo sapiens can learn to read, write and type. Please take your creationist nonsense and shove it up your arse.
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Gordon

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2019, 07:16:14 PM »
Because we would be apes, which can't read and write or type.

Well I'm an ape, Spud, and I can read, write and type - moreover, you too are an ape!

Spud

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2019, 11:31:16 PM »

Yes, but what has that got to do what we have just been discussing?
Just thought I'd ask, as I saw you wrote about it elsewhere. Glad to hear that.

Steve H

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2019, 11:54:59 PM »
Apes can do a lot more than you think they can, and in time may be able to do what we do today.

When the human ape came into existence about 200,000 years it wouldn't have been more evolved than some of the brightest apes today.
A snesible post from LR! Pass the smelling salts!
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Roses

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2019, 08:19:51 AM »
A snesible post from LR! Pass the smelling salts!

I will come and wipe your fevered brow. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Aruntraveller

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2019, 09:36:26 AM »
Yet more on the burning of our world:

https://tinyurl.com/Tasmania-burns
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. - God is Love.

Roses

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Re: Climate change is upon us....
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2019, 10:39:09 AM »
Yet more on the burning of our world:

https://tinyurl.com/Tasmania-burns


Extremely concerning, yet there are still climate change deniers like Trump! :o
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."