Climate change is upon us....

[Nearly Sane]

Watched the march past my window just up from Glasgow Green, estimate was about 40k

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-59185007

[Gordon]

Moderator:

A number of posts which derailed into the role of 'God' in Climate Change have been split to for a new thread in the Theism and Atheism Board.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=18862.msg840359#new

[Sriram]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59220687

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Despite pledges made at the climate summit COP26, the world is still nowhere near its goals on limiting global temperature rise, a new analysis shows.

It calculates that the world is heading for 2.4C of warming, far more than the 1.5C limit nations committed to.

Based on what countries have put on the table for 2030, the world is set to warm by 2.4C by 2100. That picture gets a bit better if you include the US's and China's long-term targets, which reduces the temperature to 2.1C.

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[Aruntraveller]

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59220687

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Despite pledges made at the climate summit COP26, the world is still nowhere near its goals on limiting global temperature rise, a new analysis shows.

It calculates that the world is heading for 2.4C of warming, far more than the 1.5C limit nations committed to.

Based on what countries have put on the table for 2030, the world is set to warm by 2.4C by 2100. That picture gets a bit better if you include the US's and China's long-term targets, which reduces the temperature to 2.1C.

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It's all bollocks, Sririam.

They make pledges they know that they will not have to keep as they won't be in power.

Two questions:

How many climate conferences have we had in the past?   

How often has the global temperature decreased?

I'll give you a clue. The answer to the second question is zero.

The answer to the first is significantly higher.

As Greta said: Blah, blah, blah.

[Nearly Sane]

Lying incompetent racist thug PM doesn't know where COP26 took place.


https://twitter.com/scotfoodjames/status/1459981076194074629?t=98jaMrF0px_OGXWa6vU6eA&s=19

[Sriram]

38 degrees centigrade in the Arctic....!

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59649066

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The highest temperature ever recorded in the Arctic, 38C (100F), has been officially confirmed, sounding "alarm bells" over Earth's changing climate.

The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) on Tuesday verified the record, reported in the Siberian town of Verkhoyansk on 20 June last year.

The temperature was 18C higher than the area's average daily maximum for June.

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[Aruntraveller]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/18/scientists-watch-giant-doomsday-glacier-in-antarctica-with-concern?

Where's Superman with his super freezing breath when you need him?

[Spud]

Probably a silly question, but is there any evidence that the global temperature is in homeostasis, whereby it increases as humans burn fossil fuels, thus contributing to warming, at which point less fossil fuels are burned leading to cooling, and so on? This would happen as the human population increases, so there may not be evidence yet.

[Aruntraveller]

Probably a silly question, but is there any evidence that the global temperature is in homeostasis, whereby it increases as humans burn fossil fuels, thus contributing to warming, at which point less fossil fuels are burned leading to cooling, and so on? This would happen as the human population increases, so there may not be evidence yet.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Fossil fuels are used for a lot more than just heating. They are increasingly used for cooling (because of the warming we are creating) for example. The increased wealth in India & China where consumer-led growth is also feeding into global warming via increased car ownership, etc. is a huge factor. By which I'm not blaming India & China in any way, but the world's economy is predicated on the cheapest methods of growth possible, currently that model, in large parts of the world, relies overwhelmingly on fossil fuels. It has to change if we are to stand any chance of controlling the climate crisis.

[Outrider]

Probably a silly question, but is there any evidence that the global temperature is in homeostasis, whereby it increases as humans burn fossil fuels, thus contributing to warming, at which point less fossil fuels are burned leading to cooling, and so on? This would happen as the human population increases, so there may not be evidence yet.

Part of the problem with this possibility is that it's not direct heating caused by the burning of fossil fuels that's leading to the increase in global temperature - the direct energy released is miniscule. The chemical shift in the atmosphere and oceans is what's causing the increase in temperature, and even if there is a reduction in use of the various contributors to that it will take an immensely long time for those chemical shifts to naturally revert.

The greenhouse gasses are already in the atmosphere, reducing consumption doesn't make those go away, it just slows the rate at which we're adding to them.

O.

[Spud]

It has to change if we are to stand any chance of controlling the climate crisis.

I'm fairly sure car use is reduced during the summer, and household heating certainly is. Therefore if the climate gets warmer, fossil fuel use will decrease.

The chemical shift in the atmosphere and oceans is what's causing the increase in temperature

Right, but wouldn'tincreased CO2 encourage more plant growth, which would take it oy of the atmosphere?

[Aruntraveller]

I'm fairly sure car use is reduced during the summer, and household heating certainly is. Therefore if the climate gets warmer, fossil fuel use will decrease.

I'm fairly sure that when it is Winter here it is Summer in Australia and they have their air-con on full blast.

Is car use less in Summer? The last time I did a journey in the Summer to go on holiday in Devon I think I would probably have to say no to that.

You can't seriously be thinking that because we have a warm summer here that it is going to have a significant impact worldwide.

Anyway, here because I don't think you'll believe me, take a look at this. No sign of any lessening of usage of fossil fuel (as in we are ripping through it at a staggering rate) wouldn't you agree:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-fossil-fuel-consumption?country=~OWID_WRL

EDIT: On car usage if you check here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/road-traffic-statistics-tra

Scroll down to: TRA0305: Average daily traffic flow by month in Great Britain, 5-year average

you will see that car usage is higher in Summer.

[Spud]

Two things, Trent, we will run out if fossil fuels and also space to live as the population increases. So at some point the temperature will come down, or at least stabilize. The population won't increase indefinitely because it needs space to grow crops.
By for the moment, I do agree it's pretty catastrophic.

[Aruntraveller]

Two things, Trent, we will run out if fossil fuels and also space to live as the population increases. So at some point the temperature will come down, or at least stabilize. The population won't increase indefinitely because it needs space to grow crops.
By for the moment, I do agree it's pretty catastrophic.

As I think Outrider already alluded to we are way past the point where things will revert easily. We are fast approaching a tipping point where widespread disruption will not be avoidable. We need to focus on that and not on some wishy washy feeling that it will all balance itself out. It won't. At least not without huge loss of life and displacement of huge numbers of people. And that's just for starters.

[Udayana]

As I think Outrider already alluded to we are way past the point where things will revert easily. We are fast approaching a tipping point where widespread disruption will not be avoidable. We need to focus on that and not on some wishy washy feeling that it will all balance itself out. It won't. At least not without huge loss of life and displacement of huge numbers of people. And that's just for starters.

As everyone wants to get back to "normal" - we will just have to learn to live with it! (/end sarcasm)

[Sriram]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/28/weather/antarctica-world-record-high-temperature-anomaly-climate/index.html

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Scientists were shocked this month when a research station in Antarctica reported extraordinarily warm weather.

The temperature at Concordia Research station atop Dome C on the Antarctic Plateau -- typically known as the coldest place on Earth -- surged to an astounding 11.3 degrees Fahrenheit (minus-11.5 Celsius) on March 18.

The normal high temperature for the day is around minus-56 Fahrenheit (minus-49 Celsius), which puts the March 18 reading at close to 70 degrees Fahrenheit (around 38 Celsius) warmer than normal.
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[Udayana]

Yeah .. things are not going well.

Pandemic and other world events are also interfering our ability to deal with climate change now, to avoid more in the future.

Maybe we've just screwed things up for so long we won't make it?
 

[Aruntraveller]

Learning to live with it. The phrase is a euphemism for doing fuck all.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/07/learning-live-covid-climate-breakdown-failing-government-flooding

[Spud]

I don't like the idea of relying so much on nuclear power. The waste is too dangerous and takes millennia to decay.
I like the idea of relying completely on renewable energy. I just found out you can harness energy from rain falling!

[Harrowby Hall]

I may have said this before ....

I know several places where speculative developers are building private housing estates. One thing which just stands out is that on none of these developments is a single house where solar panels are being installed as a feature of their standard design.

Should it not be mandatory that ... where feasible ... all new construction should incorporate solar panels as standard?

[Aruntraveller]

I may have said this before ....

I know several places where speculative developers are building private housing estates. One thing which just stands out is that on none of these developments is a single house where solar panels are being installed as a feature of their standard design.

Should it not be mandatory that ... where feasible ... all new construction should incorporate solar panels as standard?

Yes, it should.

On an entirely unconnected issue, I wonder why construction companies donate to the Conservative Party?

https://www.housingtoday.co.uk/news/a-fifth-of-tory-party-donations-from-property-sector/5112738.article

[jeremyp]

I don't like the idea of relying so much on nuclear power. The waste is too dangerous and takes millennia to decay.
I like the idea of relying completely on renewable energy. I just found out you can harness energy from rain falling!

Yes hydroelectricity has been a thing for hundreds of years. Unfortunately, the UK doesn't have many suitable sites for large scale hydroelectric generation.

[jeremyp]

I thought I'd have some fun.

The average UK rainfall is about 1 metre per year (give or take, but 1 is an easy number to work with).

The average raindrop falls at about 14mph = about 6 m/s

So take a square kilometre of the UK. In one year 10⁶ cubic metres of water fall on it at 6 m/s. A cubic metre has a mass of 1000 kg. So the total kinetic energy of rain falling on that square kilometre

is 1/2 mv² = 0.5 x 10⁹ x 6 x 6.

or 1.8 x 10¹⁰ joules.

That's 18 giga joules. Is that a lot?

It's 5000 kilowatt hours. It's not enough to run a one bar electric fire continuously for a year.

So, if you could capture all the kinetic energy from a whole square kilometres rainfall you could satisfactorily run one electric fire.

[Maeght]

Yes hydroelectricity has been a thing for hundreds of years. Unfortunately, the UK doesn't have many suitable sites for large scale hydroelectric generation.

A reference to this I think rather than hydroelectricity

https://www.insidescience.org/news/how-much-power-can-we-get-raindrops

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Anyone know how much only having one bath a week would save?