Author Topic: 'In 2008, America Stopped Believing in the America Dream'  (Read 720 times)

Nearly Sane

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'In 2008, America Stopped Believing in the America Dream'
« on: August 07, 2018, 09:09:13 AM »
Interesting article but I think too simplistic about both the cause of the malaise and about the reasoning of those supporting Trump.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/amp/2018/08/frank-rich-2008-financial-crisis-end-of-american-dream.html

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: 'In 2008, America Stopped Believing in the America Dream'
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2018, 02:29:06 PM »
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the increasing US deficit hasn't dented Trump's popularity. His supporters want an easy answer to fix the problems caused by slack US regulations and accountability. They don't want to hear that their problems are caused by the corporates and rich protecting the rich, as that's too difficult to fight against.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/trump-corporate-tax-cut-deficit.html

Trump argued that losses from his tax cuts would be offset by increased economic growth because companies would use the money they saved in taxes to invest in their businesses and workers, and the resulting growth in output and revenue mean actual tax amounts collected would be back up to previous levels. Wonder how long his supporters are prepared to wait for this to happen.



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Sriram

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Re: 'In 2008, America Stopped Believing in the America Dream'
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2018, 03:03:27 PM »
Interesting article but I think too simplistic about both the cause of the malaise and about the reasoning of those supporting Trump.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/amp/2018/08/frank-rich-2008-financial-crisis-end-of-american-dream.html



There is no Utopia...certainly not from economic success.  Whatever we aspire for, we are going to be unhappy when we finally get there.

Happiness from increased wealth and individual success is an illusion. That is what the American dream was all about.

The only true happiness and mental stability is from spiritual development and from rising above our material needs.  Faith and letting go!

Harrowby Hall

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Re: 'In 2008, America Stopped Believing in the America Dream'
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2018, 03:25:10 PM »

Trump argued that losses from his tax cuts would be offset by increased economic growth because companies would use the money they saved in taxes to invest in their businesses and workers, and the resulting growth in output and revenue mean actual tax amounts collected would be back up to previous levels. Wonder how long his supporters are prepared to wait for this to happen.

I may have a faulty memory, but wasn't this a central part of Ronald Reagan's economic policies?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: 'In 2008, America Stopped Believing in the America Dream'
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 11:20:43 AM »
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the increasing US deficit hasn't dented Trump's popularity. His supporters want an easy answer to fix the problems caused by slack US regulations and accountability. They don't want to hear that their problems are caused by the corporates and rich protecting the rich, as that's too difficult to fight against.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/25/business/trump-corporate-tax-cut-deficit.html

Trump argued that losses from his tax cuts would be offset by increased economic growth because companies would use the money they saved in taxes to invest in their businesses and workers, and the resulting growth in output and revenue mean actual tax amounts collected would be back up to previous levels. Wonder how long his supporters are prepared to wait for this to happen.

We are back with the idea of the Laffer curve, that you can cut taxes and maintain the yield. The problem being in relatively simple taxes, you don't know where you are in the curve, and people are not the rational actors that such economics assumes. Indeed it's likely that the idea of a curve is problematic since it will be affected by people's perceptions of value at any one time.


When it comes to corporate taxes especially  for large companies, then the sheer complexity of their relationship with multiple tax regimes and different drivers to profitability, then we really are in the realm of the description Bush Snr gave to Reagan's policies, the similarity to which Harrowby Hall has raised,  of voodoo economics. I doubt that many of his core voters will think that this is much of a problem, as the details are in one sense unimportant. Note, I am not there implying anything specific about Trump supporters, rather that if you invest so much belief in anything, including opposing Trump, your going to be defined by confirmation bias.