Author Topic: Amazon tax  (Read 2284 times)

Nearly Sane

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Amazon tax
« on: August 11, 2018, 11:07:12 AM »

This seems like a knee-jerk response rather than looking at a considered approach to redesigning the tax system for the digital age.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-45152055

Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2018, 11:45:59 AM »
And it will just get passed onto the customer, and of course those who market through Amazon.

Roses

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 11:48:48 AM »
I get most of my stuff on-line, the high street has had its day, imo.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2018, 11:49:57 AM »
I get most of my stuff on-line, the high street has had its day, imo.

Which is irrelevant to whether or not Amazon should pay their taxes fairly.

Roses

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 11:55:29 AM »
Which is irrelevant to whether or not Amazon should pay their taxes fairly.

YAWN!
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Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2018, 11:57:33 AM »
YAWN!

Why is a comment about Amazon's taxes on a thread about Amazon's taxes boring?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2018, 12:01:03 PM »
Which is irrelevant to whether or not Amazon should pay their taxes fairly.
Part of the issue though is I don't think we really know what fairly means here. That they use tax efficiency doesn't in itself make it unfair. It doesn't make sense to me to think of rebalancing taxes to save the high street. Rather we may well be overtaking the high street, but how we tax digital companies is something we should consider in its own regard to what is fair.

Leaving aside any questions of jobs, I do wonder if the effect of any possible major reduction in how we use the high street is understood in terms of social cohesion.

Roses

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2018, 12:20:31 PM »
Apart from going to specs savers in the high street of our local town once a year, I haven't shopped in the high street for a long while. Like me, most other people of my acquaintance, use the local shopping park for their groceries and buy goods on-line. I think a tax on on-line shopping outlets will go down like a lead balloon, it isn't likely to save the out of date high street.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 12:22:28 PM »
Apart from going to specs savers in the high street of our local town once a year, I haven't shopped in the high street for a long while. Like me, most other people of my acquaintance, use the local shopping park for their groceries and buy goods on-line. I think a tax on on-line shopping outlets will go down like a lead balloon, it isn't likely to save the out of date high street.
I doubt it will but do you think that organisations pay a fair amount of tax?

Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 12:24:02 PM »
Part of the issue though is I don't think we really know what fairly means here. That they use tax efficiency doesn't in itself make it unfair. It doesn't make sense to me to think of rebalancing taxes to save the high street. Rather we may well be overtaking the high street, but how we tax digital companies is something we should consider in its own regard to what is fair.

Leaving aside any questions of jobs, I do wonder if the effect of any possible major reduction in how we use the high street is understood in terms of social cohesion.

Yes, I think talk of a 'level playing field' is a nonsense - its comparing apples and cart horses. 'Fairly' should include adequate corporation tax though, but companies can't be blamed for exploiting tax loopholes, although some don't choose to. Should Amazon's warehouses have the same kind of business tax slapped on them that a prime high st location does? Don't know, but I suspect that Amazon would find a way round it.

And windfall taxes are a surefire way to destroy confidence in a government's desire to support business, or a particular business sector. Be successful and we will raid your coffers? Why even bother then?

To elaborate on my views of High St shopping, I think a lot pf people are feeling the pinch financially now. Browsing round expensive shops looking at things you can buy on pay day or on the sales is one thing; browsing and knowing that you just can't afford them is quite another. Shopping isn't fun like that. Add in the fact that on-line shopping is cheaper, and the very same stores you are wandering past are often online and with more stock anyway, and that you can shop for what you can afford while painting your nails or watching a movie, and free time is something that can be put towards something different. A trend has been noticed for people to want 'experiences' rather than 'stuff' - young people in particular prefer to spend on socialising rather than shopping.

Roses

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 12:37:03 PM »
I have never shopped for pleasure, it was just a necessary experience. I am glad it is much easier these days, you can get all your groceries and other goods in one store. Tesco is my supermarket of choice.
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jeremyp

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 07:42:25 PM »
Why is a comment about Amazon's taxes on a thread about Amazon's taxes boring?

Because that is not what the linked story is about.

The linked story suggests that a new tax should be levied on "tech giants" that will be used to subsidise traditional retailers. This is plainly ridiculous, if you ask me.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 07:45:21 PM »
Because that is not what the linked story is about.

The linked story suggests that a new tax should be levied on "tech giants" that will be used to subsidise traditional retailers. This is plainly ridiculous, if you ask me.

Isn't the new tax supposedly going to be designed to make things fairer? Or am I missing something?

jeremyp

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2018, 07:53:08 PM »
Isn't the new tax supposedly going to be designed to make things fairer? Or am I missing something?

In what way is it fair to force a retailer to subsidise some of its competitors?
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Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2018, 08:03:26 PM »
In what way is it fair to force a retailer to subsidise some of its competitors?

Did Hammond use the word 'subsidise'?

Udayana

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2018, 08:58:51 PM »
This seems like a knee-jerk response rather than looking at a considered approach to redesigning the tax system for the digital age.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-45152055
How can this be discussed in the complete absence of detail about the proposed tax mechanism?
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Udayana

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2018, 09:05:55 PM »
Because that is not what the linked story is about.

The linked story suggests that a new tax should be levied on "tech giants" that will be used to subsidise traditional retailers. This is plainly ridiculous, if you ask me.
You could have a new delivery related tax? Depends on how the tax is to be collected.

The simplest approach is to reduce (or remove) business rates and increase VAT to a rate where the lost tax is covered - collecting additional tax from the off-shore tech giants.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2018, 11:47:07 PM »
How can this be discussed in the complete absence of detail about the proposed tax mechanism?
A sales tax is a specific form of tax so your position is specious.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 10:18:01 AM »
Well one issue not covered in this is the scourge of the Deliveroo van (other companies available). I am sick and tired of vans turning up every 4 minutes to deliver one small package to a neighbour. In what way is this cost effective? In what way does it impact on traffic density? In what way does it impact on the environment?

I know it's convenient for people to sit on their lard arses and order a new bulb for a fancy light. But really is that what we have descended to?

(PS I wrote and then deleted an expletive laden version of this last night after a couple of glasses of wine).

Still, if you all prefer Amazon over the High Street not much I can do about it. But it's wrong I tell you, wrong.

(And yes I have ordered stuff from Amazon in the past  but I try not to order on the internet any more)
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Roses

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2018, 10:35:37 AM »
Well one issue not covered in this is the scourge of the Deliveroo van (other companies available). I am sick and tired of vans turning up every 4 minutes to deliver one small package to a neighbour. In what way is this cost effective? In what way does it impact on traffic density? In what way does it impact on the environment?

I know it's convenient for people to sit on their lard arses and order a new bulb for a fancy light. But really is that what we have descended to?

(PS I wrote and then deleted an expletive laden version of this last night after a couple of glasses of wine).

Still, if you all prefer Amazon over the High Street not much I can do about it. But it's wrong I tell you, wrong.

(And yes I have ordered stuff from Amazon in the past  but I try not to order on the internet any more)

I am expecting an order this week, HURRAH for the Internet. :D
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Harrowby Hall

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2018, 11:07:43 AM »
Well one issue not covered in this is the scourge of the Deliveroo van (other companies available). I am sick and tired of vans turning up every 4 minutes to deliver one small package to a neighbour. In what way is this cost effective? In what way does it impact on traffic density? In what way does it impact on the environment?

Many small Amazon packages are now delivered by Royal Mail.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2018, 11:22:08 AM »
Well one issue not covered in this is the scourge of the Deliveroo van (other companies available). I am sick and tired of vans turning up every 4 minutes to deliver one small package to a neighbour. In what way is this cost effective? In what way does it impact on traffic density? In what way does it impact on the environment?

I know it's convenient for people to sit on their lard arses and order a new bulb for a fancy light. But really is that what we have descended to?

(PS I wrote and then deleted an expletive laden version of this last night after a couple of glasses of wine).

Still, if you all prefer Amazon over the High Street not much I can do about it. But it's wrong I tell you, wrong.

(And yes I have ordered stuff from Amazon in the past  but I try not to order on the internet any more)

Which is fine if you live in a town or city and have a wide range of shops on your doorstep and can get what you need.

I have an allergy which means I need to buy a range of eco products each month. I can't buy them locally but Amazon deliver them for me in a lovely big box. There is also a poor range of kids' clothes locally, I need to drive 15 miles to get to the nearest outlet for trainers etc (and with a teenage boy you need them, believe me), and I can't get nose studs locally either which annoys me hugely. Do I need a new nose stud? No, but it's my version of a glass of wine - it puts a smile on my face.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2018, 11:28:09 AM »
Which is fine if you live in a town or city and have a wide range of shops on your doorstep and can get what you need.

I have an allergy which means I need to buy a range of eco products each month. I can't buy them locally but Amazon deliver them for me in a lovely big box. There is also a poor range of kids' clothes locally, I need to drive 15 miles to get to the nearest outlet for trainers etc (and with a teenage boy you need them, believe me), and I can't get nose studs locally either which annoys me hugely. Do I need a new nose stud? No, but it's my version of a glass of wine - it puts a smile on my face.

In addition, the cost effectiveness is that the vans deliver to multiple locations and in doing so would reduce multiple trips from individuals like yourself, so reduced traffic density.


Rhiannon

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2018, 01:30:23 PM »
In addition, the cost effectiveness is that the vans deliver to multiple locations and in doing so would reduce multiple trips from individuals like yourself, so reduced traffic density.

And I buy Prime membership so get loads of films and tv which would have an environmental cost as hard copies.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Amazon tax
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2018, 03:25:19 PM »
You make valid points on more isolated communities. I can't help but think it will make them less well served in the long run. I am aware I am in a minority on this issue. However, on the main issue Amazon and the like should pay their fair share of tax, although not subsidise the high street as that would not be a level playing field.

I still don't buy the suggestion that it improves the environment. That's just bollocks.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.