Author Topic: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour  (Read 16380 times)

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« on: August 12, 2018, 12:58:26 PM »

Jesus Christ Saves...is a sign seen outside many Christian establishments. Faith, is the key-word, here, and those who seek Jesus earnestly are seldom disappointed. There are forces at work that faith delivers into our own individual realm of being...and here, if I'm able, I would like to discuss Faith, instead  the mechanics behind our faith.


Shaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15639
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 02:15:57 PM »
Jesus Christ Saves...is a sign seen outside many Christian establishments. Faith, is the key-word, here, and those who seek Jesus earnestly are seldom disappointed.
So they're disappointed sometimes, then ... how does that work?
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

jjohnjil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 02:56:29 PM »
Jesus Christ Saves...is a sign seen outside many Christian establishments. Faith, is the key-word, here, and those who seek Jesus earnestly are seldom disappointed. There are forces at work that faith delivers into our own individual realm of being...and here, if I'm able, I would like to discuss Faith, instead  the mechanics behind our faith.
You really should think about this one, Sparky.  Which of these would desperately want people to believe in him. without providing an iota of evidence?
1)    A god who has unlimited power, who can create galaxies and everything in them ; Create every creature, large and small; Answer any prayer it wishes to; Send people to Heaven or Hell at a whim; Give babies cancer for no reason and yet find someone’s car keys merely because they asked him nicely.                                             OR
2)   A guy who wants to start a religion, such as Saul/Paul.



savillerow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 03:05:09 PM »
Faith. . . . .can i put it up against the wall and throw some rotten eggs at it? Then give it a good old whippin, then shove it in a metal container and burn it. Please.
i know this is hard for theists to agree with but . . . .we are flying this planet.

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 03:26:02 PM »
Jesus Christ Saves...is a sign seen outside many Christian establishments. Faith, is the key-word, here, and those who seek Jesus earnestly are seldom disappointed. There are forces at work that faith delivers into our own individual realm of being...and here, if I'm able, I would like to discuss Faith, instead  the mechanics behind our faith.

There is so much wrong with the idea that some god wants us to believe by faith. If it is a morally good god, that has an important message for its creation, then why isn't it making it obvious to everybody? Why the silly game of hiding away from any sound and rational way of finding it?

Is it incapable of making itself clearly known (not much of a god, then)? Unwilling or likes to play silly games with people's lives (not a good and fair god)?
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 06:41:16 PM »

Stranger/savillerow/jjohnjil/Shaker...

We can have faith in Almighty God, because of Jesus Christ and we can have faith in Jesus Christ because of Almighty God. They each showed extreme faith in each other because Jesus believed in his father's teaching so much, knowing that he would be resurrected when the antiChrist crucified him...his life wouldn't be lost.

Faith is the belief in a powerful reasoning that carries great weight in our minds eye...so much so that we follow that reasoning to Nth degree because that reasoning holds a huge benefit for us...and dying for your belief in your father to resurrect you is showing an incredible faith, especially when its precise purpose is to convey a deep and meaningful faith for kind-hearted, caring people faced with the same frightening forces that Jesus Christ had to face.

So, by our faith in Jesus, and his teaching, we know that though the flesh dies, we don't...but it is all so wrapped up in a teaching that no man understandeth, that faith is our best option...and it certainly works for me.



 

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 07:36:04 PM »
Stranger/savillerow/jjohnjil/Shaker...

We can have faith in Almighty God, because of Jesus Christ and we can have faith in Jesus Christ because of Almighty God...


eeerm, you really can't spot the circularity in that reasoning ?

Really ?

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 07:40:08 PM »

Faith is the belief in a powerful reasoning that carries great weight in our minds eye...so much so that we follow that reasoning to Nth degree because that reasoning holds a huge benefit for us...and dying for your belief in your father to resurrect you is showing an incredible faith, especially when its precise purpose is to convey a deep and meaningful faith for kind-hearted, caring people faced with the same frightening forces that Jesus Christ had to face.

No amount of appealing will obscure the fact that faith is fundamentally immoral, requiring us to be untrue to the principals of evidence and reason.  Faith is a false friend.

Sebastian Toe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7718
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 07:55:06 PM »
Well at least there is no mention of electricity.
That has to be a bonus!
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 08:47:35 PM »
torro/Seb...

Faith is a wonderful thing. We are never alone when we have faith...and it is a tactic of the bully to make you think you are alone...got no one to turn to...when, in fact, if we had been following Jesus by faith, we would have everything Jesus said we would have, behind us. Namely, the authority of Almighty God.

The sense that we have no one to turn to is a state of the mind that feeds the emotional black-hole that the Samaritans have to deal with on a regular basis...so that any help here might be useful to all those who understand what an emotional black-hole is. It is a state of mind where there is no faith in anybody or anything at all, and because of the ways of how the mind works, it keeps going round and round in circles analysing the same point of distress where there are no answers, and emotional exhaustion runs hand in hand with it.

I once worked in a factory full of women who were being bullied by these tactics of emotional distress and their state of hysteria due to these bullying tactics made me realise why faith in Jesus Christ is much more important than faith in man...no matter what qualifications they may have.

 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 08:56:24 PM by NicholasMarks »

Sebastian Toe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7718
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 09:02:17 PM »
Nick
"it keeps going round and round in circles analysing the same point of distress"

Sounds like you and your emotionally distressed fixation with "the end" wormwood and "soon".
You have been in this distressed state for at least 10 years!

Is it not time to take a break and calm down?
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends.'
Albert Einstein

jjohnjil

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 09:30:40 PM »
torro/Seb...

Faith is a wonderful thing. We are never alone when we have faith...and it is a tactic of the bully to make you think you are alone...got no one to turn to...when, in fact, if we had been following Jesus by faith, we would have everything Jesus said we would have, behind us. Namely, the authority of Almighty God.

The sense that we have no one to turn to is a state of the mind that feeds the emotional black-hole that the Samaritans have to deal with on a regular basis...so that any help here might be useful to all those who understand what an emotional black-hole is. It is a state of mind where there is no faith in anybody or anything at all, and because of the ways of how the mind works, it keeps going round and round in circles analysing the same point of distress where there are no answers, and emotional exhaustion runs hand in hand with it.

I once worked in a factory full of women who were being bullied by these tactics of emotional distress and their state of hysteria due to these bullying tactics made me realise why faith in Jesus Christ is much more important than faith in man...no matthttp://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?action=post;quote=743541;topic=15948.0er what qualifications they may have.

The only bully around here, Nick, is you!  You threaten everyone who doesn't see it your way with horror after horror! 

It's always been obvious that you are so obsessed with being resurrected after death that you'd believe any bullshit that might get it for you!  Well there isn't a plant or animal on earth that doesn't die and you'll be no exception, my friend!

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 09:39:23 PM »
Jesus Christ Saves...is a sign seen outside many Christian establishments. Faith, is the key-word, here, and those who seek Jesus earnestly are seldom disappointed. There are forces at work that faith delivers into our own individual realm of being...and here, if I'm able, I would like to discuss Faith, instead  the mechanics behind our faith.




"Trinity' is also a sign seen outside Christian Churches...and, like "Jesus Saves" is in accordance with all ACCURATE translations of Scripture.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 09:41:02 PM »
Stranger/savillerow/jjohnjil/Shaker...

We can have faith in Almighty God, because of Jesus Christ and we can have faith in Jesus Christ because of Almighty God. They each showed extreme faith in each other because Jesus believed in his father's teaching so much, knowing that he would be resurrected when the antiChrist crucified him...his life wouldn't be lost.

Faith is the belief in a powerful reasoning that carries great weight in our minds eye...so much so that we follow that reasoning to Nth degree because that reasoning holds a huge benefit for us...and dying for your belief in your father to resurrect you is showing an incredible faith, especially when its precise purpose is to convey a deep and meaningful faith for kind-hearted, caring people faced with the same frightening forces that Jesus Christ had to face.

So, by our faith in Jesus, and his teaching, we know that though the flesh dies, we don't...but it is all so wrapped up in a teaching that no man understandeth, that faith is our best option...and it certainly works for me.



 




This is going to be a thread requiring paracetamol, Laphroaig, or both.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 09:42:59 PM »
torro/Seb... Faith is a wonderful thing. We are never alone when we have faith...and it is a tactic of the bully to make you think you are alone...got no one to turn to...when, in fact, if we had been following Jesus by faith, we would have everything Jesus said we would have, behind us. Namely, the authority of Almighty God. The sense that we have no one to turn to is a state of the mind that feeds the emotional black-hole that the Samaritans have to deal with on a regular basis...so that any help here might be useful to all those who understand what an emotional black-hole is. It is a state of mind where there is no faith in anybody or anything at all, and because of the ways of how the mind works, it keeps going round and round in circles analysing the same point of distress where there are no answers, and emotional exhaustion runs hand in hand with it. I once worked in a factory full of women who were being bullied by these tactics of emotional distress and their state of hysteria due to these bullying tactics made me realise why faith in Jesus Christ is much more important than faith in man...no matter what qualifications they may have.
All authority, according to Scripture, is not given to us - it is vested in Christ - and Him alone, as the second person of the triune God. That's normal Christian doctrine, based on Scripture. And, indeed, if we accept Him as Lord, we can trust Him, know Him in our lives, let Him be part of who we are. Again, standard Christian doctrine, and with  which I concur with every fibre of my being. But why bring in the Samaritans? Are you claiming expertise in mental health, as well as cience and physics? Way to go = three out of three; 100% failure rate. Congratulations. You DO realise that Christians - committed Christians; Bible-believing Christians, can suffer from the very real mwedical disease of clinical depression, as well as other well-documented mental illnesses, which can lead them to contemplate suicide - and sometimes, regrettably, succeeed? You DO know that Christians - committed, Bible believers - can seek suicide as an alternative for a life-limiting, debilitating or terminal illness? Not some spiritual pseudoscientific technobabble, NM, real, medical factual conditions. There, thank GOD, the Samaritans can sometimes offer a non judgemental ear when sometimes, all some Christians want to do is fling Scripture at them in the hope it sticks, rather than walk with them, listen to them, and be with them. Don't ruin any Christian Witness with any vile trash about mental illness being some klack of dynamic energy caused by an aircraft leaving a trail spelling out the name of a planet some cretin says is going to collide with us.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 09:54:49 PM by Anchorman »
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 10:58:34 PM »

Anchorman/jjohnjil/Seb...


Anchorman...

You missed the point about the factory full of women who were being treated abysmally and where I started my voyage of discovery and how all this behaviour was so damaging to health and common decency...a point stressed by Jesus Christ in his many sermons...and how to deal with it...and it works...and it all comes down to winding people up whilst Jesus shows us how to unwind and connects it all with our health and welfare.


jjohnjil...

That is another delusion of the mind jjohnjil, when the one trying to help you is besmirched as the creator of the problems. If you don't believe we are all in danger try reading Revelation...especially 21:8.


Seb...

Well you can't say you aren't getting the message Seb. The emotional black-hole has been the folly of many people before now...and going round and round in circular argument the cause behind it...ask any who are being bullied especially battered wives and those who have suffered at the hands of abusers. Faith can help them as well and is at the root of Jesus Christ's words to walk the extra mile and turn the other cheek because it is so important to maintain our spiritual faith just as Jesus did when he was crucified. Of course, if you don't much care for these matters, then you won't need any faith.

 

torridon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2018, 05:55:07 AM »

You missed the point about the factory full of women who were being treated abysmally and where I started my voyage of discovery and how all this behaviour was so damaging to health and common decency...a point stressed by Jesus Christ in his many sermons...and how to deal with it...and it works...and it all comes down to winding people up whilst Jesus shows us how to unwind and connects it all with our health and welfare.


Clearly if you believed any of that you wouldn't be spending time on the internet trying to wind people up on messageboards.  You aren't fooling anyone around here I'm afraid.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2018, 08:49:49 AM »
Anchorman/jjohnjil/Seb...


Anchorman...

You missed the point about the factory full of women who were being treated abysmally and where I started my voyage of discovery and how all this behaviour was so damaging to health and common decency...a point stressed by Jesus Christ in his many sermons...and how to deal with it...and it works...and it all comes down to winding people up whilst Jesus shows us how to unwind and connects it all with our health and welfare.


jjohnjil...

That is another delusion of the mind jjohnjil, when the one trying to help you is besmirched as the creator of the problems. If you don't believe we are all in danger try reading Revelation...especially 21:8.


Seb...

Well you can't say you aren't getting the message Seb. The emotional black-hole has been the folly of many people before now...and going round and round in circular argument the cause behind it...ask any who are being bullied especially battered wives and those who have suffered at the hands of abusers. Faith can help them as well and is at the root of Jesus Christ's words to walk the extra mile and turn the other cheek because it is so important to maintain our spiritual faith just as Jesus did when he was crucified. Of course, if you don't much care for these matters, then you won't need any faith.

 
   




NM:
As a disabled Christian, who has contact with disabled people of all faiths and none, some advice.

STUP TALKING ROT.
You clearly have the same knowledger of health and disease as you have for physics, chemistry, aeronautics, ancient history, and, for that matter, apologetics.
When you're in a hole, stop digging.
You only cover yourself in dirt.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 08:55:46 AM »
Faith is the belief in a powerful reasoning...

If is reasoning, then it isn't faith.

...that carries great weight in our minds eye...so much so that we follow that reasoning to Nth degree because that reasoning holds a huge benefit for us...and dying for your belief in your father to resurrect you is showing an incredible faith, especially when its precise purpose is to convey a deep and meaningful faith for kind-hearted, caring people faced with the same frightening forces that Jesus Christ had to face.

None of this waffle is telling me why a just and fair god with an important message is not making its message obvious and requires faith instead.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 10:10:28 AM »
Right;
Before you mangle the definition of faith as set down in Scripture, NM. here's the chapter you should read.
I'm giving you a decent version, not the New World liars translation.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+11&version=NIV
Now, don'r waste it with pseudoscientific twaddle.
Non't put a spin on it which isn't there, either.
And there are no aeroplane trails, so don't worrt.

"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2018, 11:17:48 AM »
Anchorman/Stranger/torri...

You see then Anchorman, faith is a wonderful thing. I didn't put it there, Jesus did and it inspired Paul to mention in Hebrew the same things I am saying here. Faith gives us endurance and a righteous spirit to  work with so condemnation of faith is a little irresponsible. By following faith we upbuild a wonderful righteous spirit, a Holy Spirit, because it thinks, responds and acts by following Jesus and there are things activated which passeth all understanding, especially superiority over evil...all because of faith...but only as Jesus expressed it.

Anchorman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16038
  • Maranatha!
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2018, 11:44:59 AM »
Anchorman/Stranger/torri...

You see then Anchorman, faith is a wonderful thing. I didn't put it there, Jesus did and it inspired Paul to mention in Hebrew the same things I am saying here. Faith gives us endurance and a righteous spirit to  work with so condemnation of faith is a little irresponsible. By following faith we upbuild a wonderful righteous spirit, a Holy Spirit, because it thinks, responds and acts by following Jesus and there are things activated which passeth all understanding, especially superiority over evil...all because of faith...but only as Jesus expressed it.

   



Er....
I thought you went in for accuracy, NM?
You stated that Paul wrote Hebrews.
On what are you basing this, please?
I admit that the consensus amongst scholars is that this was probably a Pauline letter - but if you want to be 'scientific' about it, you cannot state the author for certan.
Please provide verifiable likns from peer-reved sites which con firm your assurane of Paul as author.
Once you do so, we can move to the rest of your post - accurately, of course.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Stranger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8236
  • Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2018, 01:20:25 PM »
You see then Anchorman, faith is a wonderful thing. I didn't put it there, Jesus did and it inspired Paul to mention in Hebrew the same things I am saying here. Faith gives us endurance and a righteous spirit to  work with so condemnation of faith is a little irresponsible. By following faith we upbuild a wonderful righteous spirit, a Holy Spirit, because it thinks, responds and acts by following Jesus and there are things activated which passeth all understanding, especially superiority over evil...all because of faith...but only as Jesus expressed it.

Again, none of this waffle is telling me why a just and fair god with an important message is not making its message obvious and requires faith instead.

Faith in the sense of believing without evidences is idiotic.
x(∅ ∈ x ∧ ∀y(yxy ∪ {y} ∈ x))

NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2018, 01:41:35 PM »
   



Er....
I thought you went in for accuracy, NM?
You stated that Paul wrote Hebrews.
On what are you basing this, please?
I admit that the consensus amongst scholars is that this was probably a Pauline letter - but if you want to be 'scientific' about it, you cannot state the author for certan.
Please provide verifiable likns from peer-reved sites which con firm your assurane of Paul as author.
Once you do so, we can move to the rest of your post - accurately, of course.

With faith we operate at a different level than science...we already have a deep belief in the many tendrils of spiritual encouragement leading us to righteousness because Jesus said so...but if you need proof I will give you proof...the book of Hebrew is written in the same style and rythmn of Paul's other spiritual thoughts which indicate the same author but if  this isn't sufficient, let us just say...I know by faith.


NicholasMarks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6285
Re: Jesus Christ, Our Saviour
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2018, 01:52:29 PM »
Again, none of this waffle is telling me why a just and fair god with an important message is not making its message obvious and requires faith instead.

Faith in the sense of believing without evidences is idiotic.

Faith in Jesus Christ is surrounded by evidence it just requires peeling away from the lies and propaganda of those who refuse to acknowledge the evidence. Though in their inner circles they despise Jesus they are not beyond pretending to be followers of Jesus so that iniquity can nullify the power that faith in Jesus delivers...but faith is still a requirement and still delivers the same righteous goods it is just that we need to have faith in Jesus' accurate word not iniquities.