Jesus Christ, Our Saviour

[ippy]

With faith we operate at a different level than science...we already have a deep belief in the many tendrils of spiritual encouragement leading us to righteousness because Jesus said so...but if you need proof I will give you proof...the book of Hebrew is written in the same style and rythmn of Paul's other spiritual thoughts which indicate the same author but if  this isn't sufficient, let us just say...I know by faith.

I see Nick, in other words you just believe it's all true you can't prove it's true and you can't possibly know for certain it is all true. 

Have I got it right Nick?

Regards ippy

[Anchorman]

With faith we operate at a different level than science...we already have a deep belief in the many tendrils of spiritual encouragement leading us to righteousness because Jesus said so...but if you need proof I will give you proof...the book of Hebrew is written in the same style and rythmn of Paul's other spiritual thoughts which indicate the same author but if  this isn't sufficient, let us just say...I know by faith.

   



Says it all, really.
I ask you to do a basic thing: cire evidence as to Paul's authorship of the letter.
Even here, you seem totally unable to do so.
For your information, I can cite at least six reputable sources - qualified in their fields - who do indeed have Paul as author.
That you can't - or won't - be bothered doing the same thing say much, sadly.

[Stranger]

Faith in Jesus Christ is surrounded by evidence...

Where is it?

[BeRational]

torro/Seb...

Faith is a wonderful thing. We are never alone when we have faith...and it is a tactic of the bully to make you think you are alone...got no one to turn to...when, in fact, if we had been following Jesus by faith, we would have everything Jesus said we would have, behind us. Namely, the authority of Almighty God.

The sense that we have no one to turn to is a state of the mind that feeds the emotional black-hole that the Samaritans have to deal with on a regular basis...so that any help here might be useful to all those who understand what an emotional black-hole is. It is a state of mind where there is no faith in anybody or anything at all, and because of the ways of how the mind works, it keeps going round and round in circles analysing the same point of distress where there are no answers, and emotional exhaustion runs hand in hand with it.

I once worked in a factory full of women who were being bullied by these tactics of emotional distress and their state of hysteria due to these bullying tactics made me realise why faith in Jesus Christ is much more important than faith in man...no matter what qualifications they may have.

Faith is NOT a pathway to truth.

Do you care if your beliefs are true?

[Anchorman]

Where is it?

Whoa.......
Does he mean "Faith in Jesus Christ"....for which there is abundand evidence;
or "Jesus Christ" - for whom there IS evidence, but I suspect he won't be bothered to post it.

[NicholasMarks]

ippy/Anchorman/BeRational/Stranger...

Faith is the keyword behind the Christian teaching of Jesus Christ because it is the best way to interact with the knowledge that passeth all understanding but, never the less, is full of eternal promises...like how to live in peace and harmony with all our neighbours...easily achieved, when we each work for the same God, by the same laws and Jesus Christ lived those laws to ensure we knew exactly what he is talking about.

The highest principle achievable by righteous laws was displayed for us, in that, a person who follows righteous laws never dies in the full sense of the word but can be resurrected into a new vessel and thereby a better vessel than the one we left. But we need faith because it is a journey that otherwise claims an unrighteous spirit and locks it in the ether...the invisible plasma that surrounds the planet...the same stuff that Jesus showed us how to escape via the spiritual strength of our faith in him...but here is the warning...the ether is shortly to be emptied of all its debris, emptied into a fiery lake of sulphur where faith will be irrelevant, and eternal damnation will be served.

[BeRational]

ippy/Anchorman/BeRational/Stranger...

Faith is the keyword behind the Christian teaching of Jesus Christ because it is the best way to interact with the knowledge that passeth all understanding but, never the less, is full of eternal promises...like how to live in peace and harmony with all our neighbours...easily achieved, when we each work for the same God, by the same laws and Jesus Christ lived those laws to ensure we knew exactly what he is talking about.

The highest principle achievable by righteous laws was displayed for us, in that, a person who follows righteous laws never dies in the full sense of the word but can be resurrected into a new vessel and thereby a better vessel than the one we left. But we need faith because it is a journey that otherwise claims an unrighteous spirit and locks it in the ether...the invisible plasma that surrounds the planet...the same stuff that Jesus showed us how to escape via the spiritual strength of our faith in him...but here is the warning...the ether is shortly to be emptied of all its debris, emptied into a fiery lake of sulphur where faith will be irrelevant, and eternal damnation will be served.

You should never use faith.

I never do.

[ippy]

ippy/Anchorman/BeRational/Stranger...

Faith is the keyword behind the Christian teaching of Jesus Christ because it is the best way to interact with the knowledge that passeth all understanding but, never the less, is full of eternal promises...like how to live in peace and harmony with all our neighbours...easily achieved, when we each work for the same God, by the same laws and Jesus Christ lived those laws to ensure we knew exactly what he is talking about.

The highest principle achievable by righteous laws was displayed for us, in that, a person who follows righteous laws never dies in the full sense of the word but can be resurrected into a new vessel and thereby a better vessel than the one we left. But we need faith because it is a journey that otherwise claims an unrighteous spirit and locks it in the ether...the invisible plasma that surrounds the planet...the same stuff that Jesus showed us how to escape via the spiritual strength of our faith in him...but here is the warning...the ether is shortly to be emptied of all its debris, emptied into a fiery lake of sulphur where faith will be irrelevant, and eternal damnation will be served.

So you believe but don't actually know Nick.

Regards ippy

[NicholasMarks]

You should never use faith.

I never do.

Faith is a component part of believing in something or someone who has all the right answers to our most serious problems but which is beyond our intellect. If a person dies but is resurrected then we have a deep and wonderful introduction to a possibility for us all. That we can be resurrected by the same faith. It means having faith in an all knowing Deity but that Deity has made it abundantly clear that our faith is well spent if we attach ourselves to their righteous teaching. My faith has introduced a small portion of that knowledge to me and because that knowledge is indesputeable it means that my faith has been well spent.

[torridon]

Faith is a component part of believing in something or someone who has all the right answers to our most serious problems but which is beyond our intellect. If a person dies but is resurrected then we have a deep and wonderful introduction to a possibility for us all. That we can be resurrected by the same faith. It means having faith in an all knowing Deity but that Deity has made it abundantly clear that our faith is well spent if we attach ourselves to their righteous teaching. My faith has introduced a small portion of that knowledge to me and because that knowledge is indesputeable it means that my faith has been well spent.

Clearly circular reasoning.  Your faith that Jesus gets resurrected is grounds for having faith in Jesus.  Are you unable to spot that ? That is a weak defence of the principal of faith. 

Faith is the enemy of a truthful reasoning mind. It closes the mind to other possibilities. An open mind on the other hand is always amenable to new findings and ready to accept they were wrong in the past. 

[Stranger]

But we need faith because it is a journey that otherwise claims an unrighteous spirit and locks it in the ether...the invisible plasma that surrounds the planet...the same stuff...

Back to the pretend science babble...     

Faith is a component part of believing in something or...[blah, blah, blah...]

You still haven't explained why a just and fair god with an important message isn't making it obvious to everybody and instead wants people to believe by faith with no evidence. It doesn't make sense.

[NicholasMarks]

Clearly circular reasoning.  Your faith that Jesus gets resurrected is grounds for having faith in Jesus.  Are you unable to spot that ? That is a weak defence of the principal of faith. 

Faith is the enemy of a truthful reasoning mind. It closes the mind to other possibilities. An open mind on the other hand is always amenable to new findings and ready to accept they were wrong in the past.

One of the most wonderful attributes of following Jesus Christ torrid is that it opens up the mind. Many are bogged down mentally and emotionally because of the false reasoning that is spewed out daily upon the unsuspecting, this is the key reason that the NHS is buckling at the knees. Faith in Jesus lifts us out ot that turmoil as long as we realise that faith here is a verb...a word that requires action...and because iniquity and the antiChrist want to keep us oppressed they will not acknowledge the truth...in fact, actively alter the truth so that people are confused...that is why we need faith.

[torridon]

One of the most wonderful attributes of following Jesus Christ torrid is that it opens up the mind....

Didn't need to read the rest of your post, the opening words alone show the shallowness of your thinking. The way to have an open mind does not consist in 'following' someone.  The way to have an open mind is pretty much the opposite, we need to avoid 'following', that is a recipe to close the mind to everything else bar that which you are following.

[NicholasMarks]

Back to the pretend science babble...     

You still haven't explained why a just and fair god with an important message isn't making it obvious to everybody and instead wants people to believe by faith with no evidence. It doesn't make sense.

Your God and mine sent Jesus Christ as a first step in doing what you suggest Stranger but the evil forces here on planet Earth are continually trying to destroy righteous ways. So, we have to, by faith, take God at his word. He is going to wait for the moment when the fiery lake of sulphur descends upon us and as a token of his wrath allow all those who do not seriously, and sincerely repent, to be evicted from this planet...spiritually, not physically, and all those who remain will breathe a huge sigh of relief. It's all in the Holy Bible, and in particular Revelation.

[Stranger]

One of the most wonderful attributes of following Jesus Christ torrid is that it opens up the mind. Many are bogged down mentally and emotionally because of the false reasoning that is spewed out daily upon the unsuspecting...

You do an awful lot of spewing out of false reasoning yourself...   

And you still haven't explained why a just and fair god with an important message isn't making it obvious to everybody and instead wants people to believe by faith with no evidence.

[NicholasMarks]

Didn't need to read the rest of your post, the opening words alone show the shallowness of your thinking. The way to have an open mind does not consist in 'following' someone.  The way to have an open mind is pretty much the opposite, we need to avoid 'following', that is a recipe to close the mind to everything else bar that which you are following.

The way to have an open mind is for the blood and the air, the hormones and the bodily nutrients to have free access to every pathway in the brain torri...Jesus Christ can deliver just that if we follow him, by faith...rather than the various and many ideas of money makers rather than health makers.

[NicholasMarks]

You do an awful lot of spewing out of false reasoning yourself...   

And you still haven't explained why a just and fair god with an important message isn't making it obvious to everybody and instead wants people to believe by faith with no evidence.

I thought I had Stranger...He has laid down his plan and is sticking to it but only those who take him seriously will benefit and the only way to take him seriously is to follow Jesus Christ accurately.

[Stranger]

I thought I had Stranger...He has laid down his plan and is sticking to it but only those who take him seriously will benefit and the only way to take him seriously is to follow Jesus Christ accurately.

That isn't an answer. Why isn't this god of yours making itself and its message obvious to everybody? Why is there no reason to take its existences, let alone its message, seriously?

Is it not really an important message?

Does your god only like overly credulous people?

Does it like cruel games of hide-and-seek?

Does it have a bad communication problem?

What is it, why is it hiding?

[NicholasMarks]

That isn't an answer. Why isn't this god of yours making itself and its message obvious to everybody? Why is there no reason to take its existences, let alone its message, seriously?

Is it not really an important message?

Does your god only like overly credulous people?

Does it like cruel games of hide-and-seek?

Does it have a bad communication problem?

What is it, why is it hiding?

Your animosity is in your writing Stranger...Read about him, especially things like...he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son as a ransom sacrifice for our sins...so that everyone exercising faith in him could have everlasting life.

But I suppose this is too much trouble so there you go believing in your own reasoning when a much higher intellect has warned you of its folly offering you repair, resurrection, and ultimately, when our faith is complete...everlasting life, which your scientists are no  were near understanding...but that doesn't mean it's unachievable...we just need faith in Jesus Christ.

[Stranger]

Your animosity is in your writing Stranger...Read about him, especially things like...he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son as a ransom sacrifice for our sins...so that everyone exercising faith in him could have everlasting life.

Still no answer to my question, then. Why is the important message from a just and fair god hidden away in an old book that is a inconsistent, often contradictory, and which doesn't actually contain a coherent message anyway (yes, I have read the bible).

But I suppose this is too much trouble so there you go believing in your own reasoning when a much higher intellect has warned you of its folly...

Where is this warning and where is the "higher intellect"?

[Anchorman]

One of the most wonderful attributes of following Jesus Christ torrid is that it opens up the mind. Many are bogged down mentally and emotionally because of the false reasoning that is spewed out daily upon the unsuspecting, this is the key reason that the NHS is buckling at the knees. Faith in Jesus lifts us out ot that turmoil as long as we realise that faith here is a verb...a word that requires action...and because iniquity and the antiChrist want to keep us oppressed they will not acknowledge the truth...in fact, actively alter the truth so that people are confused...that is why we need faith.

Actually, one of the benefits of following Christ is that He doesn't expect us to be brainwashed automata. He allows us to use our capacity to learn, to study and to use that knowledge in the service of others - building on the evidence - note the word - evidence - of those who came before us.
I've found that the most insecure believers are those who have not the faith to accept the reality of science - not the pseudotechnobabble laughinly posted as theology - and still have complete trust in Christ Jesus as Saviour and Lord.
Oh, and by the way, your world is very small. Your NHS might be in meltdown....that in Scotland is less so.
Perhaps if you involved yourself, as many Christians do, in politics, working for those who are 'the least, the last and the lost' in society, your theories might receive a well neede spiritual jolt.
(and we're not talking dynamic wotsit, either.)

[NicholasMarks]

Still no answer to my question, then. Why is the important message from a just and fair god hidden away in an old book that is a inconsistent, often contradictory, and which doesn't actually contain a coherent message anyway (yes, I have read the bible).

Where is this warning and where is the "higher intellect"?

If I can find answers in the Holy Bible then you can too Stranger. Your attitude is preventing you, because, like so many, you refuse to accept that a wonderful teaching has been delivered to us all, whilst evil and the antiChrist are trying to ridicule it and take Christianity off the agenda with the help of their co-antagonists...iniquity.

Jesus Christ gave us everything we need to know about Almighty God, the universe, our own spiritual make-up, and the rest is up to us...either we comply by faith or take the consequences of the most serious calamity to fall on this Earth since its inception. It will put the work of Satan and his henchmen into an inconsequential past-time and will release all those saved, from any further hostility, ever again...because we will know that it is all the consequence of evil thinking...and we (those who are saved) will know better.

Can't help you Stranger if you won't help yourself.

 

[NicholasMarks]

Actually, one of the benefits of following Christ is that He doesn't expect us to be brainwashed automata. He allows us to use our capacity to learn, to study and to use that knowledge in the service of others - building on the evidence - note the word - evidence - of those who came before us.
I've found that the most insecure believers are those who have not the faith to accept the reality of science - not the pseudotechnobabble laughinly posted as theology - and still have complete trust in Christ Jesus as Saviour and Lord.
Oh, and by the way, your world is very small. Your NHS might be in meltdown....that in Scotland is less so.
Perhaps if you involved yourself, as many Christians do, in politics, working for those who are 'the least, the last and the lost' in society, your theories might receive a well neede spiritual jolt.
(and we're not talking dynamic wotsit, either.)

I wonder why Jesus said...avoid politics, then Anchorman. Though your ideals appear to hold the high moral ground politics has proven to be a constant talking shop where nothing really happens accept the policies of the bullies and the aggressive, and that is in sharp contrast to Jesus Christ's teaching. The real mechanics behind it all are deplorable, and I would rather steer clear of the lot of them...Remember Gosport.

[Stranger]

If I can find answers in the Holy Bible then you can too Stranger.

Unfortunately since you claim to have found a lot of gibberish pretend science in the bible, the process can clearly be seem to be err... somewhat unreliable. Even leaving aside your own 'unique' interpretation, it's not like all those cults, sects, and denominations who all claim that they follow what's in the bible agree with each other, is it? All of which backs up my own impression that it has no actual coherent message and the only way people get to think it does is by cherry-picking.

Which brings me back to the question you keep avoiding: if the there is a just and fair god who wants to get its important message to its creation, why isn't it absolutely obvious to everybody?

[Anchorman]

I wonder why Jesus said...avoid politics, then Anchorman. Though your ideals appear to hold the high moral ground politics has proven to be a constant talking shop where nothing really happens accept the policies of the bullies and the aggressive, and that is in sharp contrast to Jesus Christ's teaching. The real mechanics behind it all are deplorable, and I would rather steer clear of the lot of them...Remember Gosport.

Where doid Jesus say "Avoid politics"?
Politics is not party politics, NM.
Politics is being involved in the world to change the world.
Jesus DID say we should be "in the world, but not of the world".
He Did tell us in Matthew 25, to look after strangers, destitutes, sick, weak, hungry, thirsty people - as if we were caring for Him.
That's politics at it's base.
Or there's the "Sermon on the mount" earlier in Matthew.
You don't GET more political - you couldn't if you tried.
When you get right down to it, Jesus Himself was a political subversive; HIs radical ideas are as dangerous now as they were then.
And you will be no doubt aware that He calls those who follow Him to be just as radical.
Do I have to point out the Scriptures for you?