Jack Whitehall cast as gay Disney character

[Nearly Sane]

Problem or not? Seems to me that unlike black actors precluded from white roles, or indeed make vs female roles, there has not been a restriction on gay actors playing straight roles so the idea of speaking to power here is very different

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/13/jack-whitehall-role-gay-disney-character-row-jungle-cruise

[Rhiannon]

My suspicion is that Disney won't cast someone who is actually really gay. A bit like Eric McCormack.

[Nearly Sane]

My suspicion is that Disney won't cast someone who is actually really gay. A bit like Eric McCormack.

This becomes a hugely complex double bluff then as gay actors get cast in straight roles all the time. I don't have any evidence that the Will role was cast to stop someone being gay in it, do you?

[Rhiannon]

This becomes a hugely complex double bluff then as gay actors get cast in straight roles all the time. I don't have any evidence that the Will role was cast to stop someone being gay in it, do you?

I know that was what was being said at the time. In an ideal world it wouldn't matter.

[Nearly Sane]

I know that was what was being said at the time. In an ideal world it wouldn't matter.

John Barrowman tells the story he was turned down for coming across too straight. I just think there is a difference about a minority who aren't excluded from majority roles

[Rhiannon]

John Barrowman tells the story he was turned down for coming across too straight. I just think there is a difference about a minority who aren't excluded from majority roles

But the reason that there is such a thing as 'majority roles' is because for so long there was no gay representation in terms of parts available. I have no answer to this but given that it's now acceptable to have gay characters, is it acceptable that they aren't played by gay actors?

[Nearly Sane]

But the reason that there is such a thing as 'majority roles' is because for so long there was no gay representation in terms of parts available. I have no answer to this but given that it's now acceptable to have gay characters, is it acceptable that they aren't played by gay actors?

Again there is a big difference to a situation where a lack of gay roles didn't stop gay actors working, and one where there was a lack of black/female roles which did reduce their chances of working.

[Rhiannon]

Again there is a big difference to a situation where a lack of gay roles didn't stop gay actors working, and one where there was a lack of black/female roles which did reduce their chances of working.

But was it ok for gay people to have to play straight people because it was that or not work?

[Nearly Sane]

But was it ok for gay people to have to play straight people because it was that or not work?

'Have to play straight people'? Are you suggesting that it was some imposition? If so, how close does the character you play have to be to the individual so as not to be an imposition?

[Harrowby Hall]

Isn't acting about pretending you are someone/something that you are not?

[Nearly Sane]

Isn't acting about pretending you are someone/something that you are not?

I think though that the idea of having actors blacking up to play Othello was problematic when black actors had few roles to play, so it's not a complete out to talk about playing what you are not.

[Harrowby Hall]

I seem to recall (though I did not see it) that when the National Theatre did Carousel - perhaps 20 years ago - the part of Mr Snow was played by a black actor. And Entwhistle, in Last of the Summer Wine, was played by Burk Kwock, admittedly an Englishman but of Chinese parentage. We have also seen the development of women playing Shakespearian male roles.

Othello is not necessarily a "black up" part. Othello is a moor and consequently could be almost any skin shade. Perhaps we shall soon see demands that Hamlet can only be played by people from Denmark.

Sierra Boggess - a wonderful performer - refused to play Maria in the Proms production of West Side Story, saying the role should go to a Latino. I hadn't realised that Spanish people who migrated to Central America were of a different ethnic type from those who remained in Spain.

[Nearly Sane]

This seems to miss the point. There was a time when effectively the only roles black actors could play were specifically written as black characters, and given the small number of those, that some that might be construed as black characters, and the fact that actors blacked up to play Othello shows that it was one, were more likely to go to blacked up actors is even more problematic.

Again women suffered from a lack of rokes, and given the originals in Shakespeare were not played by women, a bit of readjustment now causes me no problems.

Both of those seem very different to the question of sexuality where there doesn't seem to be a restriction for gay actors.

[Harrowby Hall]

Your point about lack of roles is entirely valid - and in respect of this I accept your mild admonishment. However, my suspicion now is that political correctness is also having some effect.

[Nearly Sane]

Your point about lack of roles is entirely valid - and in respect of this I accept your mild admonishment. However, my suspicion now is that political correctness is also having some effect.

I think we are agreeing in at least some scale on the last part. I am not convinced there is an issue for gay actors here. I think there are issues about transgender roles but I would hope we could move to that not being important.

[jeremyp]

But the reason that there is such a thing as 'majority roles' is because for so long there was no gay representation in terms of parts available. I have no answer to this but given that it's now acceptable to have gay characters, is it acceptable that they aren't played by gay actors?

The whole point of acting is to pretend you are something you are not. Of course it’s acceptable for straight people to play gay characters and vice versa. Also, women can play men and men can play women as long as they are good enough to carry it off.

So yes, it is acceptable for a gay role to be taken by somebody who is not gay. Of course it is.

[Nearly Sane]

The whole point of acting is to pretend you are something you are not. Of course it’s acceptable for straight people to play gay characters and vice versa. Also, women can play men and men can play women as long as they are good enough to carry it off.

So yes, it is acceptable for a gay role to be taken by somebody who is not gay. Of course it is.

And while I agree with much of that, if women in general have led roles to play, then having men play them is more of an issue?  Just as if there are few black roles, having white actors play the black roles is an issue?

[jeremyp]

And while I agree with much of that, if women in general have led roles to play, then having men play them is more of an issue?  Just as if there are few black roles, having white actors play the black roles is an issue?

As far as female roles are concerned, a female actor has an inherent advantage over a male actor when it comes to auditioning. The problem is surely that there are not enough good leading female roles being written to begin with.

When it comes to the black-white thing, I would argue that the inherent racism comes when a role has no specific skin colour tied to it and yet it is assumed that the character is white. For example, last week, I saw Mission Impossible Fall Out. All of the main characters are played by white actors except Luther Stickell and Erika Sloane, but there's no reason why they needed to be.

[jeremyp]

Othello is not necessarily a "black up" part. Othello is a moor and consequently could be almost any skin shade. Perhaps we shall soon see demands that Hamlet can only be played by people from Denmark.

This is not true. The character of Othello has to be black and everybody else in the play has to be white. It's central to Iago's scheme to destroy Othello:

Your heart is burst, you have lost half your soul.
Even now, now, very now, an old black ram
Is tupping your white ewe.

That was Iago conjuring up a vulgar image of Brabanzio's daughter - Desdemona - having sex with Othello. Hre's using a racist image to drive a wedge between Brabanzio and his son in law.

[Nearly Sane]

As far as female roles are concerned, a female actor has an inherent advantage over a male actor when it comes to auditioning. The problem is surely that there are not enough good leading female roles being written to begin with.

When it comes to the black-white thing, I would argue that the inherent racism comes when a role has no specific skin colour tied to it and yet it is assumed that the character is white. For example, last week, I saw Mission Impossible Fall Out. All of the main characters are played by white actors except Luther Stickell and Erika Sloane, but there's no reason why they needed to be.

So if there aren't any where enough near good enough female roles, is that not an issue?


As to bkack/white that was my point. It's not an issue for white actors to get a role for being white. There are %wise few roles assumed to black, yet most roles are case as whites even if that is questiinabkdy, see Othello.

[Nearly Sane]

This is not true. The character of Othello has to be black and everybody else in the play has to be white. It's central to Iago's scheme to destroy Othello:

That was Iago conjuring up a vulgar image of Brabanzio's daughter - Desdemona - having sex with Othello. Hre's using a racist image to drive a wedge between Brabanzio and his son in law.

Applause!

[Aruntraveller]

My tuppenceworth. Gay people have a lot more experience playing straight in real life anyway. So gay actors I suspect can make a decent job of playing straight. Maybe more difficult the other way around. Although I don't think it can be that difficult - Guy Pearce was very good in Priscilla QOTD. But Rock Hudson had a career built on seducing women. They are actors, darlings - it's all make believe anyway.

[Nearly Sane]

My tuppenceworth. Gay people have a lot more experience playing straight in real life anyway. So gay actors I suspect can make a decent job of playing straight. Maybe more difficult the other way around. Although I don't think it can be that difficult - Guy Pearce was very good in Priscilla QOTD. But Rock Hudson had a career built on seducing women. They are actors, darlings - it's all make believe anyway.

But gay actors are not stopped from playing characters. It's very different from what has happened for women and blacks where there are so few roles you can play.

[Aruntraveller]

But gay actors are not stopped from playing characters. It's very different from what has happened for women and blacks where there are so few roles you can play.

YEs but that is just the age old bias towards white males. Nowt to do with being gay as such.

[Nearly Sane]

YEs but that is just the age old bias towards white males. Nowt to do with being gay as such.

Exactamundo.