Corbyn

[SusanDoris]

Which just makes you a hypocrite as regards Cotbyn. And I don't think being racist and lying is a mistake. May is a disaster. As to who could do better, anyone who isn't a racist lying incompetent.

Okay, name one.

[Nearly Sane]

Okay, name one.

I note you avoided your hypocrisy as regards Corbyn. Better than May? In her own party, Dominic Grieve - He isn't a lying racist incompetent. In Labour Yvette Cooper. In the Lib Dems - Vince is way better than the lying racist incompetent, and I don't think that highly of him. In the Bats Philippe Whitford, in the Greens Caroline Lucas.

[SusanDoris]

I note you avoided your hypocrisy as regards Corbyn.

In analytical terms, it might have been classified as hypocritical, but one of the reasons I tend very much to avoid political topics is that I am not interested in all such accusations.

Better than May? In her own party, Dominic Grieve - He isn't a lying racist incompetent. In Labour Yvette Cooper. In the Lib Dems - Vince is way better than the lying racist incompetent, and I don't think that highly of him. In the Bats Philippe Whitford, in the Greens Caroline Lucas.

You are probably right about the first three,  but Caroline Lucas? No way. [/quote]

I shall now read only here!

[Nearly Sane]

In analytical terms, it might have been classified as hypocritical, but one of the reasons I tend very much to avoid political topics is that I am not interested in all such accusations.You are probably right about the first three,  but Caroline Lucas? No way.

I shall now read only here!

I don't think it makes any difference what the topic is about, nor do I even know why you think putting the word 'analytical' in front of terms does here. It reads like you are saying if one analyses it, then yes, you are a hypocrite.

And since Caroline Lucas isn't a racist liar, then yes she is way better than May.

[wigginhall]

And can you imagine him dealing even half competently  with diplomatic situations around the world. Yuck!

I think Corbyn might be good at person to person stuff, whereas May is stiff and robotic.  Of course, their ideas are pretty different.   Brexit has shown how poor the Tories are at this kind of thing, Davis seemed ignorant and out of his depth, Raab ditto, so Barnier looked rather pityingly at them.  Johnson is a klutz.   I agree that Grieve seems intelligent and reasonable.

[Nearly Sane]

I think Corbyn might be good at person to person stuff, whereas May is stiff and robotic.  Of course, their ideas are pretty different.   Brexit has shown how poor the Tories are at this kind of thing, Davis seemed ignorant and out of his depth, Raab ditto, so Barnier looked rather pityingly at them.  Johnson is a klutz.   I agree that Grieve seems intelligent and reasonable.

Johnson isn't a klutz. It's a carefully planned persona to allow him to appeal as some sort of buffoon everyman which is exactly what he isn't.

[SteveH]

Name me a politician who has not made a mistake or three, but they are all human beings. I get the impression sometimes (here and elsewhere) that people imagine there will one day be a perfect PM who has never made mistakes. If there were such a paragon of virtue, he/she would be useless as a PM since he/she would not understand what it was to make mistakes. The most important thing is to learn from them, and at the moment we have a PM who is doing the best she can. Name me one person who could step in and do better, not only with Brexit but on the world stage.

I can hear the gasps of horror already!!,

Oh, puhleeze! May is both an utter incompetent and a heartless bitch, not merely abasically good person who's made afewregrettable mistakes. Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, has a long record of fighting against injustice and for the underdog, and would be a great labour PM, even if he has made a few silly statements. He's not even all that left, on the long view: no more so than Wilson or Attlee. Politics generally has moved so far to the right since Thatcher's [spits] day that even Wilson would seem like a left-wing firebrand today.

[Robbie]

Oh, puhleeze! May is both an utter incompetent and a heartless bitch, not merely abasically good person who's made afewregrettable mistakes. Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, has a long record of fighting against injustice and for the underdog, and would be a great labour PM, even if he has made a few silly statements. He's not even all that left, on the long view: no more so than Wilson or Attlee. Politics generally has moved so far to the right since Thatcher's [spits] day that even Wilson would seem like a left-wing firebrand today.

I cautiously agree with you tho' wonder if JC might be out of his depth as PM, he doesn't appear to know how to handle situations like the antisemitic accusations, & agree with Gonners post on page 1.

Link to Morning Star article:- https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-rejects-mail-allegations-corbyn-laid-wreath-terrorists-grave

[Nearly Sane]

Dear severely muddled,

What is the big fuss, the man simply see's the future!

Corbyn is not anti Semitic, and he is not a communist, is he a socialist? well explain to me what a socialist is.

The future, what are the facts?

1. Brexit, Corbyn is pro brexit and he would make a better negotiator over brexit than the Tory I don't give a fuck about Britain party.

2. Internet, our kids can't all be computer wizards, there needs to be real jobs out there.

3. Capitalism is a busted flush, it simply does not work, the Tory ideology of small government is history, we need to take all the basics of life back under government control, and we, the have's need to pay for it until future times when the have not's can also help pay their way.

4. The wealth of the world cannot simply be in the hands of a small percentage of the worlds population, they need to be taxed properly, taxation needs to be open and transparent.

5. Robots, they are here and they are taking our jobs, this is fact not fiction.

Commonsense and compassion must be the new words in politics and Corbyn has this in abundance, we can't simply going on taking we must start to give back, and this is not charity it is commonsense, if you have our kids future at heart then get behind Corbyn or people like him who see the future.

Gonnagle.

So when he said he was anti Brexit he was lying?

[Shaker]

So when he said he was anti Brexit he was lying?

I didn't know he had stated as much so explicitly. (Admittedly, I don't follow these things in wearisome detail, so I may well have missed it). The one well-known comment he made which I can recall is that on balance he was 70% in favour of staying in the EU provided it underwent/undergoes thoroughgoing top-to-bottom reform.

The use of the word lying also precludes the possibility that someone can change their mind and support something they earlier opposed and vice versa.

[Nearly Sane]

I didn't know he had stated as much so explicitly. (Admittedly, I don't follow these things in wearisome detail, so I may well have missed it). The one well-known comment he made which I can recall is that on balance he was 70% in favour of staying in the EU provided it underwent/undergoes thoroughgoing top-to-bottom reform.

The use of the word lying also precludes the possibility that someone can change their mind and support something they earlier opposed and vice versa.

And he campaigned however lukewarm for Remain. And yes, he could change his mind, has he said that he did?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430606

[Nearly Sane]

Been watching Corbyn's interview with Channel 4, and whatever other doubts, he is very clear condemning the Munich terrorist atrocity, so good for him

[wigginhall]

Quite funny to see the Daily Mail attempting to show the geography of the cemetery in Tunis, and the various graves of Palestinians.   Apparently, there was a red canopy which ran alongside Black September graves, and Corbyn was definitely nearby.   This all seems a bit, "you were in the same room as alleged terrorist X".

Ironically, Netanyahu has probably helped Corbyn by attacking him, since Israel has killed thousands of Palestinians in recent years.  Who mourns them?

[Nearly Sane]

Yep, Netanyahu's attacks allows people to ignore Corbyn because Netanyahu is an evil dick.

[Shaker]

Withering sarcasm can be heavy-handed, but can also be done well: https://tinyurl.com/y98xu8b9

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Seems to me that many here are just wanting that little something to steady their hands as they put that cross next to Conservative at the next ballot.


Last time it was how Milibands father who was Jewish 'hated' the UK and when that was shown to be guff you were relieved when it was revealed how weird Miliband looked when he ate a Bacon sandwich.

[Nearly Sane]

Seems to me that many here are just wanting that little something to steady their hands as they put that cross next to Conservative at the next ballot.


Last time it was how Milibands father who was Jewish 'hated' the UK and when that was shown to be guff you were relieved when it was revealed how weird Miliband looked when he ate a Bacon sandwich.

Who are these 'many'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Who are these 'many'?

I speak of those who in the face of the most incompetent, cruel and cynical government ever, still find great comfort in blaming and faultfinding the labour party and it's leader and as we have talked about that includes labour MP's.

[Nearly Sane]

I speak of those who in the face of the most incompetent, cruel and cynical government ever, still find great comfort in blaming and faultfinding the labour party and it's leader and as we have talked about that includes labour MP's.

But surely given that as you note this Labour MPs, and we have a party that is in some bizarre internal battle, any one else finding fault with the Labour Party is entirely reasonable.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But surely given that as you note this Labour MPs, and we have a party that is in some bizarre internal battle, any one else finding fault with the Labour Party is entirely reasonable.

Yes, but only fault finding labour smacks of excusing the tories and the SNP.

''All politicians are as bad'' just usually means ''I'LL BE STICKING WITH THE TORIES''.


And, ''I'm not voting'' is shorthand for ''I'd rather not vote than vote Labour''.


People are stuck in the political cycle Each Government has an average of 15 years at a time when it will result in them having to relearn all those recipes involving squirrels, rabbits and dormice.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes, but only fault finding labour smacks of excusing the tories and the SNP.

''All politicians are as bad'' just usually means ''I'LL BE STICKING WITH THE TORIES''.


And, ''I'm not voting'' is shorthand for ''I'd rather not vote than vote Labour''.


People are stuck in the political cycle Each Government has an average of 15 years at a time when it will result in them having to relearn all those recipes involving squirrels, rabbits and dormice.

This seems to be a reply to some other post.

[Nearly Sane]

Labour's continued struggle against itself.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-labour-britain.html

[Rhiannon]

Labour's continued struggle against itself.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-labour-britain.html

And yet he remains in his job and I don't see that changing.

[Shaker]

And yet he remains in his job and I don't see that changing.

Why should it, though? There was a leadership election and he won by a landslide (59.5%). There was a second one not long after and he picked up an even greater majority (61.8%). Labour membership has never been higher*; if my entirely anecdotal experience on Twitter is anything to go by, membership is climbing because people are seeing through the anti-Semitism smears as the politically-orchestrated campaign to get rid of him that it is.

* 552,000 as of January this year, the most recent figures I could find. The Tories stand at 124,000. Lib Dems probably about 12, I imagine.

[wigginhall]

If there was an obvious alternative,  there would be an alternative.   But who?