Trans rights: a perspective

[Nearly Sane]

On the hounding of Kathleen Stock


https://lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/our-demand-is-simple-fire-kathleen-stock-until-then-youll-see-us-around-anti-terf-students-at-sussex-university-target-professor-of-philosophy-in-campa/

[jeremyp]

On the hounding of Kathleen Stock


https://lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/10/our-demand-is-simple-fire-kathleen-stock-until-then-youll-see-us-around-anti-terf-students-at-sussex-university-target-professor-of-philosophy-in-campa/

Ophelia Benson thinks that campaign has failed

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2021/anatomy-of-a-failed-cancellation/

[Nearly Sane]

Ophelia Benson thinks that campaign has failed

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2021/anatomy-of-a-failed-cancellation/

I would agree but it's worth noting that Francesco Ventrella was not the instigator of the campaign. The most significant intervention was from Uni of Sussex Vice Chancellor covered in Jo Bartosch's article. Though amazingly the Women's Officer at the Student Union completely disassociated herself from them and condemned Kathleen Stock. In addition, the effect of this is that many academics are scared to speak up on this.

[Nearly Sane]

Absolute fucking madness

https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/?fbclid=IwAR2CKbnnYOxZJCcIR6ElvlGXWTSfnclzYiVxcBL3LH7stBZQ96VIWOHkxDs

[jeremyp]

Absolute fucking madness

https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/?fbclid=IwAR2CKbnnYOxZJCcIR6ElvlGXWTSfnclzYiVxcBL3LH7stBZQ96VIWOHkxDs

I don't agree. It seems completely reasonable that deliberately insulting another prisoner attracts a punishment. Nothing has really changed.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't agree. It seems completely reasonable that deliberately insulting another prisoner attracts a punishment. Nothing has really changed.

Nice to see you believe in enforced speech and that correctly sexing someine as an insult.

[Nearly Sane]

'Fact shame'

[jeremyp]

Nice to see you believe in enforced speech and that correctly sexing someine as an insult.

Read the article. The idea that you can be punished in prison for deliberately insulting speech is not new.

It's more about maintaining order in a prison than respecting rights, which, by the way are already severely restricted by virtue of the fact that it's a prison.

You can argue, if you like, that somebody with a penis shouldn't be in a women's prison and I would agree with you, but given that they are there, provoking them into violence should not be allowed anymore than provoking any of the women into violence should be allowed.

[Nearly Sane]

Read the article. The idea that you can be punished in prison for deliberately insulting speech is not new.

It's more about maintaining order in a prison than respecting rights, which, by the way are already severely restricted by virtue of the fact that it's a prison.

You can argue, if you like, that somebody with a penis shouldn't be in a women's prison and I would agree with you, but given that they are there, provoking them into violence should not be allowed anymore than provoking any of the women into violence should be allowed.

Man with delusion gets to enforce speech because he might get violent. Gaslighting women and supporting the idea that might is right.

[jeremyp]

Man with delusion gets to enforce spoeech because he might get violent.

No he doesn't. The prison authorities get to enforce speech because they don't want to have to restore order after the riots.

Gaslighting women and supporting the idea that might is right.

Nothing has changed. It's just a clarification that mis-gendering people is considered insulting behaviour and insulting behaviour is not allowed in prisons. It doesn't mean you will get punished and it doesn't mean, if you are punished you will get time added on. That's what "case by case" means.

This is not "absolute fucking madness". Absolute fucking madness is putting a rapist in a prison with a load of potential victims because he says he is a woman.

[Nearly Sane]

No he doesn't. The prison authorities get to enforce speech because they don't want to have to restore order after the riots.Nothing has changed. It's just a clarification that mis-gendering people is considered insulting behaviour and insulting behaviour is not allowed in prisons. It doesn't mean you will get punished and it doesn't mean, if you are punished you will get time added on. That's what "case by case" means.

This is not "absolute fucking madness". Absolute fucking madness is putting a rapist in a prison with a load of potential victims because he says he is a woman.

And the prison authorities are enforcing the speech upon the women because they 'absolutely fucking madly' think that correctly sexing someone is an insult and they 'absolutely fucking madly' think that supporting someone's delusion because they would be violent is fine. That it is already absolute fucking madness that he's in a women's prisin doesn't detract from this being a facet of the same absolute fucking madness.

[Nearly Sane]

Janice Turner on Kathleen Stock


https://archive.is/8hJx9

[Nearly Sane]

And more on Kathleen Stock


https://archive.is/1LPQj

Quote from student “She has said publicly that she does not believe trans men are men or trans women are women. It should not be acceptable for a professor to say things that might hurt someone”

Facts are transphobic

[jeremyp]

And more on Kathleen Stock


https://archive.is/1LPQj

Quote from student “She has said publicly that she does not believe trans men are men or trans women are women. It should not be acceptable for a professor to say things that might hurt someone”

Facts are transphobic

I think they need to expel some students for intimidating behaviour. Just saying "academic freedom" on the radio isn't going to help.

[Nearly Sane]

Good article


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/11/cancellation-women-bigger-culture-war/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_Ax32VdvZht59

[Harrowby Hall]

Good article


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/11/cancellation-women-bigger-culture-war/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_Ax32VdvZht59

Wouldn't knoe. it's behind a pay wall.

[Nearly Sane]

Wouldn't knoe. it's behind a pay wall.

Ah, the share token mustn't have come across for some reason.

Try this

https://archive.is/IYn5j/again?url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/11/cancellation-women-bigger-culture-war/%3FWT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_Ax32VdvZht59

[Harrowby Hall]

Thank you, NS.

I must admit that I have been waiting for this bizarre argumentative situation to collapse from its own irrationality - but that shows no signs of happening.

Has anyone heard of any instance where the same arguments are being used to deny the biological reality of being a man?

[Nearly Sane]

Thank you, NS.

I must admit that I have been waiting for this bizarre argumentative situation to collapse from its own irrationality - but that shows no signs of happening.

Has anyone heard of any instance where the same arguments are being used to deny the biological reality of being a man?

The same arguments have been applied but the outcomes are  different. Same sex based spaces for men are not based on the idea of safety as women's are.

[jeremyp]

Has anyone heard of any instance where the same arguments are being used to deny the biological reality of being a man?

No because biological males typically are not discriminated against for their sex.

To me, this whole issue looks like a case of males (a small subset thereof) trying to assert power over females. When looked at in those terms, it's obvious why it's one way traffic. It's the same thing as it's always been.

[Nearly Sane]

University and College Union, Sussex Branch throws Kathleen Stock under the bus

[Harrowby Hall]

The Union opposes all forms of bullying .... except the version it practises.

[Nearly Sane]

'Nolan Investigates looks at the influence Stonewall has in public institutions across the UK. We talk to a range of voices with a view on sex, gender and identity.'



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p09yjmph

[Spud]

Ah, the share token mustn't have come across for some reason.

Try this

https://archive.is/IYn5j/again?url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/11/cancellation-women-bigger-culture-war/%3FWT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_androidshare_Ax32VdvZht59

For me, the arguments in this article highlight the futility of the whole concept and practice of 'trans' in the first place.

[Nearly Sane]

Obviously if you can identify as man/woman, the logic will allow you to identify as black or disabled.


https://archive.is/cmyUI