Author Topic: Trans rights: a perspective  (Read 121870 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2325 on: September 13, 2024, 11:38:02 AM »
This is from Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre's website today on their 'women only' services - which are not women only. Those who have contributed to this have contributed to the abuse of raped women and girls. Those who have used the empty mantra of 'trans women are women' are at best idiots, and at worst dangerous abusers of women
 

jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2326 on: September 13, 2024, 12:52:34 PM »
"Our review has concluded that the Census 2021 gender identity statistics published by ONS do not comply with important quality aspects of the Code of Practice for Statistics. Today we wrote to ONS and confirmed the cancellation of the accreditation of these statistics. We support ONS’s view that these should instead be classified as official statistics in development."

Muddled thinking has made the stats worthless, and they were warned about it.




https://osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/news/osr-publishes-its-final-report-on-the-review-of-the-statistics-collected-on-gender-identity-during-the-england-and-wales-census/

Quote
We [The OSR] support ONS’s view that these should instead be classified as official statistics in development.

Doesn't sound like muddled thinking. They agree with each other. Also, the statistics are not completely worthless. They should help in developing statistics that tell them something useful. That's what "in development" means.
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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2327 on: September 13, 2024, 01:01:41 PM »
You think men are taking drugs to grow "breasts" in order to feed babies? You think that's their primary motivation?
I do not know what their motivation is. I would guess that they want to be as much like women as possible. I do not think that the motivation isn necessarily sexual and nobody has provided evidence to suggest that it is (I accept it could be in some cases).
Quote
The baby has a mother, as all babies do, and if the mother isn't able to feed it there are alternatives that don't involve making an infant swallow discharge from pharmaceutically induced gynaecomastia.
If you are claiming that the person in the article who said it does no harm is wrong, fair enough, but I would like to see some evidence.

Quote
That you can't see the sick perversion involved is disturbing.
I can't get into the mind of a trans person. I have no concept of what it feels like to thin k you are trapped in the wrong body. Frankly, I think calling it a sick perversion is defamatory, unless you provide some evidence.

Quote
If a man was doing this while not calling himself a woman, would that be alright?
I think it would be weird and icky, but that is just my prejudices. If it's harmful to the baby, fair enough stop it, but provide me with the evidence that it is harmful first please.

Quote
Quote from Stranger on a different thread, on a different subject: "That people insist on trying to justify this insanity is testament to how faith can destroy reasoning".

This is where we are. New born babies are being abused for the "validation" of mentally ill men, and all the so-called "progressives" care about are the feelings of the men.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong. All I'm saying is I'd like to see the evidence apart from the fact that it makes you feel icky.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2328 on: September 13, 2024, 01:23:33 PM »
I do not know what their motivation is. I would guess that they want to be as much like women as possible. I do not think that the motivation isn necessarily sexual and nobody has provided evidence to suggest that it is (I accept it could be in some cases).If you are claiming that the person in the article who said it does no harm is wrong, fair enough, but I would like to see some evidence.
I can't get into the mind of a trans person. I have no concept of what it feels like to thin k you are trapped in the wrong body. Frankly, I think calling it a sick perversion is defamatory, unless you provide some evidence.
I think it would be weird and icky, but that is just my prejudices. If it's harmful to the baby, fair enough stop it, but provide me with the evidence that it is harmful first please.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong. All I'm saying is I'd like to see the evidence apart from the fact that it makes you feel icky.

You've got your safeguarding the wrong way round. You need to show it's not harmful to the baby before any discussion on this even begins.



Christine

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2329 on: September 13, 2024, 08:03:56 PM »
You've got your safeguarding the wrong way round. You need to show it's not harmful to the baby before any discussion on this even begins.

Thank you.

Icky. My God. Sometimes the naturally evolved disgust response is entirely justified. This is about babies. Defenceless babies. Shame on anyone excusing or justifying this abuse.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2330 on: September 13, 2024, 10:02:45 PM »
Thank you.

Icky. My God. Sometimes the naturally evolved disgust response is entirely justified. This is about babies. Defenceless babies. Shame on anyone excusing or justifying this abuse.
And interesting that jeremyp says he is incapable in getting into the mind of a 'trans person' but is perfectly happy to tell you as a woman what you are thinking.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2024, 10:26:26 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2331 on: September 14, 2024, 09:32:45 AM »
Victoria Smith on the disgrace of Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre's treatment of women looking for single sex spaces.


https://unherd.com/newsroom/rape-crisis-centre-ceo-resigns-over-failure-to-protect-single-sex-spaces/

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2332 on: September 14, 2024, 01:50:32 PM »
Susan Dalgety on the scandal at Edinburgh Rape Crosis Centre. Her anger mirrors my own.


https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/sexual-abuse-survivors-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-trans-ideology-4780614

SteveH

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2333 on: September 14, 2024, 03:29:54 PM »
One way of making clear who counts as what:
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2334 on: September 16, 2024, 09:47:41 PM »
"Social worker wins £55,000 after row about gender-fluid dachshund" - of course


https://archive.vn/HfCZg

jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2335 on: September 17, 2024, 10:56:02 AM »
You've got your safeguarding the wrong way round. You need to show it's not harmful to the baby before any discussion on this even begins.

I've got a person quoted in the story you posted who says it is not harmful. I accept that person might be wrong, but, at this time* I have no evidence that they are.

* I haven't read further down the thread than your post I am quoting, so I acknowledge the evidence might already be there.

Edit: Oh well, you haven't posted the evidence yet. The ball is in your court.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2024, 11:00:27 AM by jeremyp »
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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2336 on: September 17, 2024, 10:57:45 AM »
And interesting that jeremyp says he is incapable in getting into the mind of a 'trans person' but is perfectly happy to tell you as a woman what you are thinking.

I haven't tried to tell you what Christine is thinking.
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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2337 on: September 17, 2024, 10:59:06 AM »
Thank you.

Icky. My God. Sometimes the naturally evolved disgust response is entirely justified. This is about babies. Defenceless babies. Shame on anyone excusing or justifying this abuse.

You haven't provided any evidence to suggest that it is abuse yet. Shame on you for appealing to people's emotions instead of providing an evidenced argument.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2338 on: September 17, 2024, 11:07:09 AM »
I've got a person quoted in the story you posted who says it is not harmful. I accept that person might be wrong, but, at this time* I have no evidence that they are.

* I haven't read further down the thread than your post I am quoting, so I acknowledge the evidence might already be there.

Edit: Oh well, you haven't posted the evidence yet. The ball is in your court.
The article says that 'breast milk' can be produced, bot that it is safe, not thar there have been any longterm resistance, not that the additional hormones needed have been tested for. Again you need to show quote that supports no harm, rather than supporting experimentation on babies because of a delusion

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2339 on: September 18, 2024, 04:22:07 AM »

Victoria Smith on thr film Will and Harper

https://thecritic.co.uk/allyship-on-easy-mode/

Christine

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2340 on: September 18, 2024, 09:45:08 AM »
You haven't provided any evidence to suggest that it is abuse yet. Shame on you for appealing to people's emotions instead of providing an evidenced argument.

There are good evolutionary reasons for feeling emotional about the protection of infant humans. In my opinion, experimenting on babies for the benefit of deluded men's feelings is indefensible. Those who try need to prove benefit to THE BABY before they feed him or her pharmacologically induced discharge. 

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2341 on: September 20, 2024, 06:47:54 AM »
There are good evolutionary reasons for feeling emotional about the protection of infant humans. In my opinion, experimenting on babies for the benefit of deluded men's feelings is indefensible. Those who try need to prove benefit to THE BABY before they feed him or her pharmacologically induced discharge.
Good statement here


https://www.womensforumaustralia.org/victorian_breastfeeding_advocate_faces_legal_action_for_comments_critical_of_men_chest_feeding

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2342 on: September 21, 2024, 04:32:20 PM »
I do not know what their motivation is. I would guess that they want to be as much like women as possible. I do not think that the motivation isn necessarily sexual and nobody has provided evidence to suggest that it is (I accept it could be in some cases).If you are claiming that the person in the article who said it does no harm is wrong, fair enough, but I would like to see some evidence.
I can't get into the mind of a trans person. I have no concept of what it feels like to thin k you are trapped in the wrong body. Frankly, I think calling it a sick perversion is defamatory, unless you provide some evidence.
I think it would be weird and icky, but that is just my prejudices. If it's harmful to the baby, fair enough stop it, but provide me with the evidence that it is harmful first please.

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong. All I'm saying is I'd like to see the evidence apart from the fact that it makes you feel icky.
There seem to have been various cases in the past of babies having health conditions after ingesting baby formula  that has not been properly tested for its harmful effects and which does not have the nutritional value of breast milk. Unfortunately, these things only come to light after the damage has been done to the babies e.g Remedia brand baby formula lacking Vit B1 caused 3 deaths and 20 babies to have severe disabilities.

Many real women apparently feel less of a woman if they can't breast feed their baby - possibly due to cultural pressures on them - not sure how much societies prioritise their need to feel like a woman over what's best for the baby.

As for getting into the mind of a trans person who thinks they are trapped in the 'wrong body' - I don't know what's so special about the mind of a trans person compared to any other person who struggles with their identity. Gender categories are just socially-constructed classifications based on the prevailing culture at the time. If Trans people have developed a sense of identity that doesn't match their body or sex organs, doesn't seem any more difficult to understand than other groups of people who struggle with mental health issues while they try to change what's on the outside to reflect/ match who they feel they are on the inside - clothes, haircuts, wigs, extensive tattoos, body-piercings and surgery/ medical procedures such as fillers, boob jobs, limb-lengthening surgery. Or people who try to change other biological traits to match their sense of identity. Some people try to supress their biological attraction to others or sexual preferences through medical intervention because it does not match their sense of who they are.

Sure, there could also be a biological basis for our sense of identity. For example a study on the Physiological Sensitivity to Disgust as a Predictor of Political Attitudes suggests political attitudes connect to broad, dispositional, perhaps biological temperaments https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/SmithDisgust2009.pdf

There could be a biological basis for our sense of gender identity that is different from the basis that classifies our biological sex. But our politics, gender and religious identities still all seem to be social constructs based on meanings we associate with experiences and actions and based on values and beliefs we hold that change as our surrounding culture and experiences changes.

So if I considered myself a Muslim trapped in an atheist's body who felt I needed to mutilate my body to validate my new identity, society might go along with it but it wouldn't be surprising if people objected to me expressing my religious identity by feeding my baby substances that could potentially harm it. It would be even less surprising if people objected to me mutilating my baby to express my religious identity such as having the baby circumcised. If there is some evidence that gender is not mostly a social construct like religion based on meanings we associate with experiences, would like to see some links to that. 

I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2343 on: September 21, 2024, 08:52:15 PM »
I see some sad fuck threw soup over Kellie-Jay Keen at a Let Women Speak rally in Sheffield today. I don't agree with her on everything but this sort of low level violence against women speaking is a disgrace.


https://x.com/MartiBlagi/status/1837500390859854049
« Last Edit: September 23, 2024, 08:55:55 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #2344 on: September 29, 2024, 11:49:40 AM »

"The judge told Secker: "At the time of this offence, you were a man.""

And is still a fucking man.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rdpdm4r4ro