Author Topic: Trans rights: a perspective  (Read 122298 times)

Aruntraveller

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #950 on: April 01, 2021, 11:41:04 AM »
Trans Women are Men - an interview with Debbie Hayton, who explains her position rather well:

https://youtu.be/q0DT1aBHheI

It's a long watch  1 hr 05 minutes, but very interesting.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.


Aruntraveller

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #952 on: April 01, 2021, 08:15:36 PM »
James Dreyfus


https://lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/04/james-dreyfus-ive-lost-count-of-the-times-ive-been-smeared-lied-about-called-a-nazi-a-transphobe-a-bully-an-orchestrator-of-mass-pile-ons-i-mean-how-does-one-begin-to-tackle-such-basel/

Very good piece. I have recently managed to get myself thrown out of an LGBT group on FB, for questioning the language used by people in that group. I merely asked if the best way to win an argument was to scream "kill the cunt" (in this case JKR) and was summarily told that I was being defined by my addiction to cock (if only) and asked if I would sleep with a FTM trans regardless of their stage of transition, I said I would not, I was kicked out of the group. No discussion, just censor the critic.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #953 on: April 01, 2021, 08:22:58 PM »
Very good piece. I have recently managed to get myself thrown out of an LGBT group on FB, for questioning the language used by people in that group. I merely asked if the best way to win an argument was to scream "kill the cunt" (in this case JKR) and was summarily told that I was being defined by my addiction to cock (if only) and asked if I would sleep with a FTM trans regardless of their stage of transition, I said I would not, I was kicked out of the group. No discussion, just censor the critic.

I would say it was incredible but sadly the homophobia is all too credible.

Nearly Sane

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Robbie

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #955 on: April 06, 2021, 12:15:07 PM »
Thanks for that. An extremely thoughtful writer.
It is scary; most of us are fortunate that we don't encounter it in reality very often.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #956 on: April 07, 2021, 03:49:35 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #957 on: April 07, 2021, 07:19:49 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #958 on: April 07, 2021, 07:56:36 PM »

jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #959 on: April 12, 2021, 03:06:16 PM »
And very powerful, clear article from Keira Bell


https://www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cta

That was a difficult read.

If you're unhappy or suffering from depression and you're attracted to the "wrong" sex then the easy to assume reason is that you have gender dysphoria but that's obviously lazy thinking and ignores the possibility that you're just gay and your unhappiness stems from other sources.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #960 on: April 12, 2021, 04:29:07 PM »
That was a difficult read.

If you're unhappy or suffering from depression and you're attracted to the "wrong" sex then the easy to assume reason is that you have gender dysphoria but that's obviously lazy thinking and ignores the possibility that you're just gay and your unhappiness stems from other sources.
It's not what I would call 'lazy thinking' especially if you are being encouraged to think that way by those you have turned to. It's why the straight affirmation approach is problematic.

Owlswing

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #961 on: April 12, 2021, 05:01:42 PM »

I am probably asking for a right royal kicking in asking my question, but even being aware of the consequences I have to ask it.

What professional qualifications do the posters on this topic have to question the decisions of the medical and psychological professionals dealing with trans patients and legal qualifications to judge the consequences of the decisions of both the practitioners and those required to judge the legality of those decisions and the laws governing those decisions and consequences?

Owlswing

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Aruntraveller

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #962 on: April 12, 2021, 07:14:29 PM »
I am probably asking for a right royal kicking in asking my question, but even being aware of the consequences I have to ask it.

What professional qualifications do the posters on this topic have to question the decisions of the medical and psychological professionals dealing with trans patients and legal qualifications to judge the consequences of the decisions of both the practitioners and those required to judge the legality of those decisions and the laws governing those decisions and consequences?

Owlswing

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Well I haven't got any. I do however have a basic understanding of the English Language and you can't go renaming things just because it suits your particular fancy, which is what a lot of the arguments around trans issues are about.

There, are though, increasing examples of people who transitioned at a young age who now clearly regret it. This suggests an eagerness on the part of professionals to progress people to transition at an earlier age than they perhaps ought to.

Add into that a narrative that has been built up by some in the trans community that people are being denied some kind of birth right and you have some parents believing that their children, because the boys put on dresses, or the girls are "tomboys" are trans in some way. Frankly most of them won't be, they'll be going through a phase or they may be gay.

The ultimate danger of course is self ID, where one can simply  declare oneself a member of the opposite sex. It is fanciful, dangerous nonsense and pushes parents and professionals to a decision that I doubt they would have made even 10 years ago.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Robbie

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #963 on: April 13, 2021, 07:12:50 AM »
Why would you get a kicking Owl? What you ask is reasonable.

However I do agree with Trent. I also read there is an exceptionally high suicide rate amongst young people post trans. It is becoming quite cool for schoolchildren to self ID as the opposite sex which cannot be healthy. In efforts to be tolerant, society has moved the boundaries too far.
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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #964 on: April 13, 2021, 10:01:54 AM »
I am probably asking for a right royal kicking in asking my question, but even being aware of the consequences I have to ask it.

What professional qualifications do the posters on this topic have to question the decisions of the medical and psychological professionals dealing with trans patients and legal qualifications to judge the consequences of the decisions of both the practitioners and those required to judge the legality of those decisions and the laws governing those decisions and consequences?

Owlswing

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Fortunately none of us are making medical diagnoses about trans issues. This is a discussion forum. You are free to call out people whose think ng you believe to be wrong.
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Owlswing

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #965 on: April 13, 2021, 01:58:24 PM »
Well, I haven't got any. I do however have a basic understanding of the English Language and you can't go renaming things just because it suits your particular fancy, which is what a lot of the arguments around trans issues are about.

There, are though, increasing examples of people who transitioned at a young age who now clearly regrets it. This suggests an eagerness on the part of professionals to progress people to transition at an earlier age than they perhaps ought to.

Add into that a narrative that has been built up by some in the trans community that people are being denied some kind of birthright and you have some parents believing that their children, because the boys put on dresses, or the girls are "tomboys" are trans in some way. Frankly, most of them won't be, they'll be going through a phase or they may be gay.

The ultimate danger of course is self ID, where one can simply  declare oneself a member of the opposite sex. It is fanciful, dangerous nonsense and pushes parents and professionals to a decision that I doubt they would have made even 10 years ago.


I agree with the italicised words, but cannot see why a qualified professional would allow themselves to be forced, sorry, pushed into accepting such 'nonsense', "dangerous" is, in a way, in my pig-ignorant view, a major understatement.

I have a friend, of many years, who decided to transition f-to-m, a decision that took her six or seven years to finally take and action. It then took her a further five years to get the medics and the psycho people to agree with her his decision - nowadays it sometimes seems that, even with children, five weeks is considered a long time!

If I have offended any here in my comment regarding lack of knowledge, detailed and specific knowledge, not general knowledge, of the subject I offer serious apologies!

Owlswing

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #966 on: April 13, 2021, 02:58:09 PM »
I agree with the italicised words, but cannot see why a qualified professional would allow themselves to be forced, sorry, pushed into accepting such 'nonsense', "dangerous" is, in a way, in my pig-ignorant view, a major understatement.

I have a friend, of many years, who decided to transition f-to-m, a decision that took her six or seven years to finally take and action. It then took her a further five years to get the medics and the psycho people to agree with her his decision - nowadays it sometimes seems that, even with children, five weeks is considered a long time!

If I have offended any here in my comment regarding lack of knowledge, detailed and specific knowledge, not general knowledge, of the subject I offer serious apologies!

Owlswing

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Some qualified professionals are doing the pushing.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #967 on: April 13, 2021, 03:19:06 PM »
I agree with the italicised words, but cannot see why a qualified professional would allow themselves to be forced, sorry, pushed into accepting such 'nonsense', "dangerous" is, in a way, in my pig-ignorant view, a major understatement.

I have a friend, of many years, who decided to transition f-to-m, a decision that took her six or seven years to finally take and action. It then took her a further five years to get the medics and the psycho people to agree with her his decision - nowadays it sometimes seems that, even with children, five weeks is considered a long time!

If I have offended any here in my comment regarding lack of knowledge, detailed and specific knowledge, not general knowledge, of the subject I offer serious apologies!

Owlswing

)O(
The other big worry here as regards children is the use of puberty blockers. It's far from clear, and indeed there is evidence to the contrary, that these are fully reversible.

Robbie

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #968 on: April 14, 2021, 10:23:02 PM »
Owl:  ....nowadays it sometimes seems that, even with children, five weeks is considered a long time!
........
That is what so many are objecting to. Children should be protected and not subjected to possibly irreversible treatment when they are not sufficiently mature to understand the implications.

I've only just seen this by Trentvoyager:
I have recently managed to get myself thrown out of an LGBT group on FB, for questioning the language used by people in that group. I merely asked if the best way to win an argument was to scream "kill the cunt" (in this case JKR) and was summarily told that I was being defined by my addiction to cock (if only) and asked if I would sleep with a FTM trans regardless of their stage of transition, I said I would not, I was kicked out of the group. No discussion, just censor the critic.

.......
Dreadful. Frightening. Defo homophobic.
(For the record I wouldn't want to sleep with a female-to-man trans either.)
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Owlswing

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #969 on: April 14, 2021, 10:38:33 PM »

Owl:  ....nowadays it sometimes seems that, even with children, five weeks is considered a long time!
........
That is what so many are objecting to. Children should be protected and not subjected to possibly irreversible treatment when they are not sufficiently mature to understand the implications.


This was my worry, but as usual, it seems, I didn't say what I meant!

It seems that some of those involved seem to forget any kind of consultation and examination period to be necessary, "This child wants to change let's help them now and to Hell with the consequences good or bad, just get the little beast out of my office!"

Not very professional!

Owlswing

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Robbie

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #970 on: April 15, 2021, 08:35:56 AM »
I agree that much consultation and counselling is necessary Owl.

If it does go ahead without that, and I didn't realise it had gone that far in this country, I can only assume that the professionals involved have become carried away with an ideal.

This has happened in the past in different scenarios, doctors experimenting on patients. We should have learned from history.

It's a pity so many trust doctors implicitly and don't question anything.

There are also parents who support their children going through treatment to transition at a very early age. It has become quite a 'cool' option.
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Owlswing

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #971 on: April 15, 2021, 09:02:22 AM »

I agree that much consultation and counseling is necessary Owl.

If it does go ahead without that, and I didn't realise it had gone that far in this country, I can only assume that the professionals involved have become carried away with an ideal.

This has happened in the past in different scenarios, doctors experimenting on patients. We should have learned from history.

It's a pity that so many trust doctors implicitly and don't question anything.

There are also parents who support their children going through treatment to transition at a very early age. It has become quite a 'cool' option.


It is with regret that I have to say that in this particular portion of this discussion parents seem to be either the cause of the problem (What my child wants my child gets!) or ignored by the "experts" (You are not an expert so you do not know what you are talking about!).

Owlswing

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The Holy Bible, probably the most diabolical work of fiction ever to be visited upon mankind.

An it harm none, do what you will; an it harm some, do what you must!

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #972 on: April 15, 2021, 12:15:22 PM »
Good interview with Johann Lamont - starts about 8 minutes in.


https://www.holyrood.com/podcasts.htm

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #973 on: April 15, 2021, 03:21:38 PM »

Nearly Sane

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