Trans rights: a perspective

[Nearly Sane]

I've never seen a job application or even an enquiry into applying for a job in which the potential applicant felt it necessary to warn us of their views with respect to certain scientific facts. People just don't do it.

  And yet when someone did they got 2 responses that meant a belief in scientific facts would be a problem. But you are much more concerned about belittling the person to be bothered about that.

[jeremyp]

  And yet when someone did they got 2 responses that meant a belief in scientific facts would be a problem. But you are much more concerned about belittling the person to be bothered about that.

They were clearly looking for a fight. So yes, I criticise them.

[Nearly Sane]

They were clearly looking for a fight. So yes, I criticise them.

Nice to see you standing up for the suppression of facts.
And wanting people standing up for free expression to shut up because they are just 'looking for a fight'

[jeremyp]

Nice to see you standing up for the suppression of facts.

What facts? All we have is two short articles in newspapers, one of which is inaccessible to me.

And wanting people standing up for free expression to shut up because they are just 'looking for a fight'

In a job application

[Nearly Sane]

What facts? All we have is two short articles in newspapers, one of which is inaccessible to me.In a job application

The facts that people can't change sex - which 2 police forces seem to want no one who applies to them to say.

In a query about whether it would be problematic to think that people can't change sex and apply for a job.

Don't you think that knowing there are 2 police forces don't want their employees stating facts about sex is a good thing to have found out?

[jeremyp]

Don't you think that knowing there are 2 police forces don't want their employees stating facts about sex is a good thing to have found out?

I wouldn't want my employees stating facts about sex in the course of their duties. It's totally irrelevant to writing computer software. 

[Nearly Sane]

I wouldn't want my employees stating facts about sex in the course of their duties. It's totally irrelevant to writing computer software.

But if you are recording the sex of a person committing a crime it will be relevant.

[jeremyp]

But if you are recording the sex of a person committing a crime it will be relevant.

No it won't. You would just record the sex and not make comment about it.

[Nearly Sane]

No it won't. You would just record the sex and not make comment about it.

And yet we have police forces recording sex based on self ID.

[jeremyp]

And yet we have police forces recording sex based on self ID.

That's a policy decision made a long way up the chain of command. If you are a constable arresting somebody, you just have to record what they say. Their actual sex and/or gender doesn't become an issue until you need to choose a prison to put them in while they are on remand. Even then, there's no room for personal views: you have to do what the guidelines say.

[Nearly Sane]

https://rdln.wordpress.com/2020/08/21/olympian-lorraine-moller-speaks-up-for-womens-sports/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

That's a policy decision made a long way up the chain of command. If you are a constable arresting somebody, you just have to record what they say. Their actual sex and/or gender doesn't become an issue until you need to choose a prison to put them in while they are on remand. Even then, there's no room for personal views: you have to do what the guidelines say.

The factual sex of people is an issue if you are putting out warnings to the public about a potentially dangerous criminal - it becomes an issue well before the prison stage. It is also an issue when trying to justify policing or policy decisions based on evidenced statistics on the sex of people committing certain crimes. Presumably anyone interested in preventing or policing crime would want to know how stats are being recorded in order to make policing suitably effective in trying to prevent crime.

If suspected rapists or domestic abusers decided to self-ID as women that would change the arrest stats. It's not just a prison issue. 

[ippy]

There certainly seems to be a large number of these questionable gender people and it must be very difficult for anyone that has to deal with them in the fairest even handed manner possible and then having dealt with them feeling confident they've got it right.

It's an area where it's a certainty that there are no easy answers.

[Aruntraveller]

here certainly seems to be a large number of these questionable gender people

Not sure there are. We just here more about it nowadays.

Looked it up and a couple of sources give an estimate of 1 in 500 in the UK. Which equates to about 135,000 (ish) people.

[Robbie]

Agree with Trent.

[wigginhall]

Depends on how many types of gender non-conformity you include.  If you include non-binary, genderqueer, and trans, plus others, estimates vary a lot.

[Aruntraveller]

Depends on how many types of gender non-conformity you include.  If you include non-binary, genderqueer, and trans, plus others, estimates vary a lot.

I just looked up figures for transgender.

I lose track of the various categories and sub categories, etc.

[wigginhall]

Also depends on which culture, once you include two spirit, kathoey, hijras, etc., the idea of third gender is elastic.

[ippy]

Not sure there are. We just here more about it nowadays.

Looked it up and a couple of sources give an estimate of 1 in 500 in the UK. Which equates to about 135,000 (ish) people.

Made a point of not quoting numbers therefore the 'seems' in that sentence, no judgement offered either way just thought it worth a mention about the difficulties. 

[Nearly Sane]

The numbers are in many ways irrelevant. The question to me is women's sex based rights. If you want to give them up for 1 self ID, then they are gone.

[Aruntraveller]

Made a point of not quoting numbers therefore the 'seems' in that sentence, no judgement offered either way just thought it worth a mention about the difficulties.

You said there seems to be a large number. I was merely pointing out one of the possible reasons why there "seems to be a large number" and then provided rough numbers from a couple of sources to try to give the numbers some perspective.

Pardon me for even trying to be fucking helpful.

[ippy]

You said there seems to be a large number. I was merely pointing out one of the possible reasons why there "seems to be a large number" and then provided rough numbers from a couple of sources to try to give the numbers some perspective.

Pardon me for even trying to be fucking helpful.

Pardon me for trying to be succinct and not arguing any particular corner, oh yes the language bit nothing particularly shocking about that, more disappointing to see it than anything else.

[Nearly Sane]

Interview with couple of the founders of the LGB Alliance


https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/unbelievably-i-have-an-exclusive

[Nearly Sane]

And just ffs!


https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-08-28/strike-jk-rowling-trans-controversy/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[jeremyp]

And just ffs!


https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-08-28/strike-jk-rowling-trans-controversy/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Don’t take a position in opposition to the radical trans women, because it’s exhausting for them.