Author Topic: Trans rights: a perspective  (Read 131719 times)




Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1353 on: November 03, 2021, 08:03:36 AM »
Ffs!

https://inews.co.uk/culture/old-vic-theatre-cancels-terry-gilliam-into-the-woods-monty-python-star-offensive-remarks-1278544
I find it galling that there is all this ‘young’ political action and when it comes to the one piece of political action that makes a difference , voting in local and general elections, you can bet that significant sections of the young people’s vote is not there.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1354 on: November 03, 2021, 09:13:25 AM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1355 on: November 03, 2021, 01:43:38 PM »
And the disgrace that allows men saying they are women and convicted of violent or sexual crimes into women's prisons.

https://archive.vn/Xsfn5

jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1356 on: November 03, 2021, 07:08:08 PM »
Ffs!

https://inews.co.uk/culture/old-vic-theatre-cancels-terry-gilliam-into-the-woods-monty-python-star-offensive-remarks-1278544

They just need to be fired. If you won't do your job, bye. In fact, given that the Old Vic seemed to have been hoping for this production to bring in lots of cash, firing may be the only option.
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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1357 on: November 03, 2021, 07:21:51 PM »
And the disgrace that allows men saying they are women and convicted of violent or sexual crimes into women's prisons.

https://archive.vn/Xsfn5
This is going to end badly. First there's the obvious danger of putting a sex offender in a building populated by people from the group he targets as victims. But there's also the possibility that some of the women in the said prison are also likely to be violent offenders and, if a few of them get together and decide the situation is unacceptable... 
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1358 on: November 03, 2021, 07:25:34 PM »
This is going to end badly. First there's the obvious danger of putting a sex offender in a building populated by people from the group he targets as victims. But there's also the possibility that some of the women in the said prison are also likely to be violent offenders and, if a few of them get together and decide the situation is unacceptable...
Stop blaming women for men's violence against women.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1359 on: November 03, 2021, 07:26:53 PM »
They just need to be fired. If you won't do your job, bye. In fact, given that the Old Vic seemed to have been hoping for this production to bring in lots of cash, firing may be the only option.
Not keen on reverse cancellation

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1360 on: November 03, 2021, 07:31:57 PM »
This is going to be interesting - I wonder what the definition of "tolerated" is going to be given the latest Maya Forstater judgement by the Employment Appeal Tribunal:

In its written judgment, it said: “Just as the legal recognition of civil partnerships does not negate the right of a person to believe that marriage should only apply to heterosexual couples, becoming the acquired gender ‘for all purposes’ within the meaning of GRA does not negate a person’s right to believe, like the claimant, that as a matter of biology a trans person is still their natal sex. Both beliefs may well be profoundly offensive and even distressing to many others, but they are beliefs that are and must be tolerated in a pluralist society.”

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/10/gender-critical-views-protected-belief-appeal-tribunal-rules-maya-forstater
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1361 on: November 03, 2021, 10:11:36 PM »
This is going to be interesting - I wonder what the definition of "tolerated" is going to be given the latest Maya Forstater judgement by the Employment Appeal Tribunal:

In its written judgment, it said: “Just as the legal recognition of civil partnerships does not negate the right of a person to believe that marriage should only apply to heterosexual couples, becoming the acquired gender ‘for all purposes’ within the meaning of GRA does not negate a person’s right to believe, like the claimant, that as a matter of biology a trans person is still their natal sex. Both beliefs may well be profoundly offensive and even distressing to many others, but they are beliefs that are and must be tolerated in a pluralist society.”

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/jun/10/gender-critical-views-protected-belief-appeal-tribunal-rules-maya-forstater
That's a decision from June.

But the idea that someone can change sex is just as rational as this being a flat earth.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 12:00:11 AM by Nearly Sane »

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1362 on: November 04, 2021, 12:46:33 AM »
True. It's from June. I had not previously read the part from the June judgement stating the obvious - that in a society people will be required to tolerate beliefs being expressed that they may find offensive. 

Instead of being tolerant, people seem to be increasingly claiming they feel "unsafe" if someone holds a belief that offends them.

Maya Forstater wrote an article in Oct 2021 about the danger of judges being unduly influenced by lobbyists such as Stonewall to go beyond the Equalities Act in the judgements they hand out. https://thecritic.co.uk/who-judges-the-judges/

She says parts of the Equal Treatment Bench Book (ETBB), a guidance document produced by the Judicial College, which is the body that trains judges, seems to have been written by lobbyists from the trans movement.

She claims "The chapter in the ETBB on transgender describes sex as being “assigned at birth”. It tells judges that the language of the Equality Act is out of date. It asserts that acknowledging someone’s sex may breach their human rights. Most seriously, it warns judges that dissent from Stonewall’s teachings is dangerous; it blames “negative responses” to its expansive view of civil rights protections of trans people for a rise in hate crime."

She says it could have been this training that led to the judge in her original 2019 Employment Tribunal erring in law by finding against her on the grounds that her gender-critical belief was “not worthy of respect in a democratic society”, putting it on par with Nazism or fascism; the kinds of views for which you can rightly lose your job. She writes of the difficulty and lack of transparency in finding out how much judges are unduly influenced by training from lobby groups. 

Hopefully, more and more government departments will continue to back away from paying Stonewall for training or implementing Stonewall's incorrect interpretation/ misrepresentation of the Equalities Act.

I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1364 on: November 04, 2021, 05:56:07 PM »
Stop blaming women for men's violence against women.
In what insane parallel Universe did what I wrote imply I was blaming women for men's violence?
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jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1365 on: November 04, 2021, 05:57:09 PM »
Not keen on reverse cancellation
Firing people for refusing to do their jobs isn't cancellation - at least not unjustified cancellation.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1366 on: November 04, 2021, 09:52:30 PM »
In what insane parallel Universe did what I wrote imply I was blaming women for men's violence?
Yeah, that was way over the top. But the high danger in women's prisons if they put men who say they are women in them is from those men. Because that's what the numbers show. Worrying about women being violent in that situation serms to miss the point.

SteveH

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1367 on: November 05, 2021, 10:07:09 AM »
Interesting article in this week's 'New European' about the trolling of JK Rowling.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1368 on: November 05, 2021, 12:57:33 PM »
Interesting article in this week's 'New European' about the trolling of JK Rowling.
See Reply 1354 for link

Nearly Sane

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1370 on: November 05, 2021, 07:46:11 PM »
Rape by any other name

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1371 on: November 06, 2021, 10:10:14 AM »

jeremyp

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1372 on: November 06, 2021, 10:55:57 AM »
Yeah, that was way over the top. But the high danger in women's prisons if they put men who say they are women in them is from those men. Because that's what the numbers show. Worrying about women being violent in that situation serms to miss the point.

I'm not worrying about it. I am just raising it as a possible outcome at some point in the future. The fact that nobody has even considered it seems to be part of the overall blindness to the consequences of putting rapists in prison with potential victims. The rapists will rape the women there and, if the women perceive that the authorities are not going to protect them, they'll protect themselves and I wouldn't blame them in that scenario.

I don't see why we need to be so mindful of the rights of trans women in prison. The fact that they are in prison means that their rights are already severely curtailed, by design. If you want to be treated as a woman, perhaps you shouldn't rape women.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1373 on: November 10, 2021, 02:37:20 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Trans rights: a perspective
« Reply #1374 on: November 11, 2021, 10:01:20 AM »
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