Trans rights: a perspective

[jeremyp]

I am not insisting. You can lie if you like. I linked to the article covering why I think you lying is problematic

A pronoun is just a way to refer to somebody. Bridges prefers us to refer to her as she. I see no reason not to respect that. And no, I'm not lying. "She" doesn't mean what you think it means.

[jeremyp]

Oh yes and an article that starts "Pronouns are Rohypnol"? Yeah that's not inflammatory language. If you are going to criticise Bridges for comparing the British Cycling ruling to genocide, you probably shouldn't be endorsing in the same kind of language.

[Nearly Sane]

A pronoun is just a way to refer to somebody. Bridges prefers us to refer to her as she. I see no reason not to respect that. And no, I'm not lying. "She" doesn't mean what you think it means.

What does it mean? Using female pronouns for a man implicitly backs up the fatuous argument thAt men who say they are women are women. You know they aren't, ergo you are lying.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh yes and an article that starts "Pronouns are Rohypnol"? Yeah that's not inflammatory language. If you are going to criticise Bridges for comparing the British Cycling ruling to genocide, you probably shouldn't be endorsing in the same kind of language.

Is it strong language, yep. And needed. It is, however, metaphorical. Bridges is using the genocide as literal. Note, I hadn't criticised Bridges statenent. Just put it up, and Joan Smith's refutation of it. Ypu, pf cpurse, noted that he was lying.

[jeremyp]

What does it mean? Using female pronouns for a man implicitly backs up the fatuous argument thAt men who say they are women are women.

No it doesn't. It's just a pronoun.

You know they aren't, ergo you are lying.

No, I simply don't accept your interpretation of the word.

And you see what's happened here? You've deflected a discussion on a serious topic to something that is really quite inconsequential.

[Nearly Sane]

No it doesn't. It's just a pronoun.

No, I simply don't accept your interpretation of the word.

And you see what's happened here? You've deflected a discussion on a serious topic to something that is really quite inconsequential.

No, I think language here is vitally important as it frames the debate.

[jeremyp]

No, I think language here is vitally important as it frames the debate.

And I think accusing others of administering a metaphorical date rape drug doesn't help in any way.

[Nearly Sane]

And I think accusing others of administering a metaphorical date rape drug doesn't help in any way.

I disagree. I think it makes a valid point about the serious effect of the acceptance of the idea that men who say they are women should be given the validation by people like you lying.

[jeremyp]

I disagree. I think it makes a valid point about the serious effect of the acceptance of the idea that men who say they are women should be given the validation by people like you lying.

So here you are having a fight with somebody over a trivial point with somebody who agrees with you in all of the important aspects of this topic.

Sometimes you are utterly pathetic.

[Nearly Sane]

So here you are having a fight with somebody over a trivial point with somebody who agrees with you in all of the important aspects of this topic.

Sometimes you are utterly pathetic.

No, I am having an argument about something that I think is vitally important to the topic. I think the misuse of language has lead to male prisoners being placed in women's prisons. I think your acceptance of Bridges pronouns is bad and dangerous thinking.

[Nearly Sane]

Excellent from Hadley Freeman


https://archive.vn/uyFda

[Nearly Sane]

So Kathleen Stock due to speak tonight at the Oxford Union as covered in earlier posts, be interesting to see what happens. And I'll assume those in favour of academic free speech will be supporting her right to speak.

[Nearly Sane]

Meanwhile

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Professor Stock's invitation to Oxford...

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-65714821

***********

A gender-critical academic says she is "determined" to speak at the Oxford Union after some students responded angrily to her invitation to a talk.

There has been a row over whether Prof Kathleen Stock should be allowed to attend the debate. Some say her views on gender identity are transphobic.

And Oxford University's LGBTQ+ Society called for a protest at the venue ahead of the event.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said Prof Stock's invitation should stand.

He added: "Agree or disagree with her, Professor Stock is an important figure in this argument. Students should be allowed to hear and debate her views.

"University should be an environment where debate is supported, not stifled.

"We mustn't allow a small but vocal few to shut down discussion."

*************

Any views?

Cheers.

Sriram

[Nearly Sane]

Hi everyone,

Professor Stock's invitation to Oxford...

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-65714821

***********

A gender-critical academic says she is "determined" to speak at the Oxford Union after some students responded angrily to her invitation to a talk.

There has been a row over whether Prof Kathleen Stock should be allowed to attend the debate. Some say her views on gender identity are transphobic.

And Oxford University's LGBTQ+ Society called for a protest at the venue ahead of the event.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said Prof Stock's invitation should stand.

He added: "Agree or disagree with her, Professor Stock is an important figure in this argument. Students should be allowed to hear and debate her views.

"University should be an environment where debate is supported, not stifled.

"We mustn't allow a small but vocal few to shut down discussion."

*************

Any views?

Cheers.

Sriram

Moderator
Merged this, Sriram, because you can then see this is a long ongoing subject. And the specifics already raised

[Nearly Sane]

The great JK Rowling

[Nearly Sane]

The great JK Rowling

is there any one who disagrees?

[Sriram]

Moderator
Merged this, Sriram, because you can then see this is a long ongoing subject. And the specifics already raised

Sure. No problem. Thanks NS.

[Nearly Sane]

A somewhat partisan report of the event with Kathleen Stock which rather unfortunately mixes up David Irving and David Starkey.


https://archive.is/wylFg

[Nearly Sane]

And the Times view


https://archive.md/igEmJ

[Nearly Sane]

Kay Green on last night's Gender Wars on Channel 4

https://kaygreen.blog/2023/05/31/i-never-watch-telly-but/

[Nearly Sane]

Stonkingly good piece from Victoria Smith about the return of gender stereotypes but 'ironic'


https://thecritic.co.uk/here-come-the-new-gender-stereotypes-same-as-the-old-gender-stereotypes/

[Nearly Sane]

Janice Turner on Kathleen Stock's appearance at the Oxford Union


https://archive.vn/iq5Od

[Nearly Sane]

And Stock's own piece on it


https://unherd.com/2023/06/the-oxford-kids-are-alright/

[Nearly Sane]

Well, they can fuck right off. I don't believe in their religion.

Note, I will generally refer to anyone by whatever name they choose, though there are issues with sex offenders using it as a loophole, but I don't 'misgender' people because I don't believe in reifying regressive patriarchal stereotypes.


https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/oxford-college-toexpel-students-misgender-trans-peers/