Don't condemn your children for being gay, whisk them off to the psychiatrist

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No one has a propensity to be gay or straight. People just fancy people.

I fancy a Macdonalds.

[Nearly Sane]

I fancy a Macdonalds.

extra pickle?

[Nearly Sane]

"Intolerant? Or ignorant? Both?"

Which does nothing to say that disagreeing with her says  he is ignorant. Just her expressing her opinion that he might be both.

[Shaker]

The man should make up his mind. He was - according to some - earning brownie points not too long ago for saying "Who am I to judge?" and telling a gay man that God made him that way.

He's intolerant since we know that in his native country he was a bitter opponent of marriage equality*, stating that it was inspired by Satan, and ignorant if he thinks that being gay - actually or even potentially - is something to see a psychiatrist about. Psychiatrists, unlike psychologists, are medical professionals who treat illnesses. They have a medical degree, which is why they're able to prescribe medication. Therefore the conclusion is that he presumably sees being gay as a disorder in need of treatment.

Which is standard Catholic spiel, of course.

* https://tinyurl.com/y86xvpv6

[SteveH]

Which does nothing to say that disagreeing with her says  he is ignorant. Just her expressing her opinion that he might be both.

Don't be silly. Why would she suggest it if she didn't think he might be, presumably because he doesn't agree with her.

[Rhiannon]

Don't be silly. Why would she suggest it if she didn't think he might be, presumably because he doesn't agree with her.

I don't agree with a lot of people but I don't think that makes them ignorant.

[SteveH]

Then why did you say

Intolerant? Or ignorant? Both?

[Rhiannon]

Then why did you say

Oh, let's try again.

I disagree with my family and friends for voting for Brexit. I do not believe them to be intolerant or ignorant.

I disagree with people who support football clubs other than my own. I do not believe them to be intolerant or ignorant.

I disagree with people who don't like holidays by the sea. I do not believe them too be intolerant or ignorant.

I disagree with anyone who thinks that the appropriate thing to do with a gay child is send them to a psych. To me the has to be born of intolerance, or ignorance. You say that you disagree with the pope on this one. How do you see his suggestion? A craven attempt to placate the conservatives?

[Rhiannon]

Papal fallibility.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/28/vatican-erases-popes-remarks-about-psychiatric-help-for-gay-children

[Shaker]

Papal invisibility.

[jeremyp]

Which is a low bar. He isn't tolerant.

He is by comparison  with many of his predecessors.

[Shaker]

He is by comparison  with many of his predecessors.

I agree. I also think that NS was absolutely correct in saying that that's a pretty low bar. "By comparison with" covers a multitude of sins.

[Rhiannon]

I agree. I also think that NS was absolutely correct in saying that that's a pretty low bar.

Yes. Still, any shift is welcome.

[jeremyp]

No one has a propensity to be gay or straight. People just fancy people.

Rubbish.

For example the people I fancy are exclusively female. I have a propensity to be straight. The gay people I know tend to fancy people of the same sex as themselves. They have a propensity to be gay.

The important point is it shouldn’t matter.

[Rhiannon]

Rubbish.

For example the people I fancy are exclusively female. I have a propensity to be straight. The gay people I know tend to fancy people of the same sex as themselves. They have a propensity to be gay.

The important point is it shouldn’t matter.

Until one day a straight person you know goes off with someone of the same gender and you realise that they were bi. In case you hadn't noticed, bi people meet a life partner that tends to put them in a box. When that ends, things open up. See Tom Robinsnon for example, He didn't suddenly stop being glad to be gay.

My experience is that most of us have a degree of fluidity.

[jeremyp]

Until one day a straight person you know goes off with someone of the same gender and you realise that they were bi.

Well I personally know a couple of people who have done that. I also do not exclude the possibility of it happening to me one day, but we are talking about propensity(an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way). The fact that there are a few people who have bucked the trend does not mean that the general point is false. Last year Manchester City had a propensity to win their football matches. That does not mean they won every single one.

In case you hadn't noticed, bi people meet a life partner that tends to put them in a box. When that ends, things open up. See Tom Robinsnon for example, He didn't suddenly stop being glad to be gay.

I’ve seen Tom Robinson several times actually. However, his existence does not alter the fact that straight people have a propensity to take partners of the other sex and gay people have a propensity to take partners of the same sex.

As I said before it shouldn’t matter.

My experience is that most of us have a degree of fluidity.

But most of us have a propensity to lean one way or the other.

[Rhiannon]

Might just be a generational thing, Jeremy.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/young-people-more-likely-identify-bisexual-gay-lesbian-office-national-statistics-a7347701.html

[Nearly Sane]

Rubbish.

For example the people I fancy are exclusively female. I have a propensity to be straight. The gay people I know tend to fancy people of the same sex as themselves. They have a propensity to be gay.

The important point is it shouldn’t matter.

I apologise for not being clear/ People may have a propensity for fancying exclusively male, female, everyone or any combination in between. They do not have a propensity to be gay or straight or bi or pan or a sexual. That's just the label we create to describe those propensities. The labels, as labels often are, disguise that there really isn't that much difference in what we are actually doing, i.e. fancying people.