Author Topic: Lawrence Krauss  (Read 16357 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2019, 01:41:38 PM »
Has anyone else noticed that sexual misconduct allegations against a Scottish politician are fair game for any comment  and yet those against a prominent anti theist were not considered a valid subject of comment.
No.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2019, 01:55:15 PM »
No.
Is that because the anti theists have bored people who would have off the forum.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2019, 01:56:57 PM »
Is that because the anti theists have bored people who would have off the forum.
No.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2019, 01:58:55 PM »
No.
So. Anti theistic bores are off the hook then?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2019, 02:06:42 PM »
So. Anti theistic bores are off the hook then?
Irrelevant to thread.

jeremyp

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2019, 02:12:49 PM »
Is that because the anti theists have bored people who would have off the forum.
No it is because it isn't true. |There was quite a lively thread about an atheist who was accused of sexual misconduct.
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Gordon

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2019, 02:21:29 PM »
Has anyone else noticed that sexual misconduct allegations against a Scottish politician are fair game for any comment  and yet those against a prominent anti theist were not considered a valid subject of comment.

Nope: in any case, Vlad, you have your very own thread entitled Lawrence Krauss (who isn't a Scottish politician) over on Theism & Atheism.

So why don't you stop derailing this thread and go and play in the thread you started on the subject of your favourite 'prominent anti theist' where you can post about him as often as you wish (and you'd be on-topic too), and anyone else who is interested in Krauss can join in there.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2019, 02:34:11 PM »
No it is because it isn't true. |There was quite a lively thread about an atheist who was accused of sexual misconduct.
Where have I said there wasn't a thread or two on it? And how many people posting quite casually on these allegations expressed opposition to those threads existence and validity?.....And if they aren't posting on this thread why post disapproval on those threads?

SteveH

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2019, 10:24:09 PM »
Everybody's heard of Alex Salmond; hardly anybody's heard of Lawrence Krauss. QED.
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Robbie

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2019, 06:44:19 AM »
No it is because it isn't true. |There was quite a lively thread about an atheist who was accused of sexual misconduct.

So what's new about that? Religious, non-religious, singers, actors, directors, social workers - politicians. All have some in their number accused of sexual misconduct.

Everybody's heard of Alex Salmond; hardly anybody's heard of Lawrence Krauss. QED.

Yep. Never heard of him before he was mentioned on here.
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Maeght

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2019, 07:18:29 AM »
So what's new about that? Religious, non-religious, singers, actors, directors, social workers - politicians. All have some in their number accused of sexual misconduct.

Yep. Never heard of him before he was mentioned on here.

No, nor me.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2019, 08:02:51 AM »
Everybody's heard of Alex Salmond; hardly anybody's heard of Lawrence Krauss. QED.
The forum has had a long tradition of reporting the allegations against the clergy but many posters wanted to suppress discussion when it came to those against an antitheist.

The abusive behaviour reported in the world of academia and particular science has recieved no comment on this forum and yet the deeds of Alex Salmond have garnered 12 pages.

I wonder why because there is a critical thread on indian science with a pop title science, Indian style, a title which imho shows absoluetely zero taste.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2019, 08:07:01 AM »
So what's new about that? Religious, non-religious, singers, actors, directors, social workers - politicians. All have some in their number accused of sexual misconduct.

Yep. Never heard of him before he was mentioned on here.

There have been many posts concerning people we dont know and havent heard off.An absolutely pathetic argument.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2019, 09:52:21 AM »
The abusive behaviour reported in the world of academia and particular science has recieved no comment on this forum and yet the deeds of Alex Salmond have garnered 12 pages.
I suggest that is because Alex Salmond is a much higher profile figure than Lawrence Krause (I'm in academia and a scientist and I'd never heard of him before you brought him up Vlad). Note too that we have a perhaps disproportionate number of posters from Scotland where Salmond has been a dominant public figure for years.

The point being that on this forum there is an intense interest in Salmond as a public figure and therefore it isn't surprising that the allegations are of interest too. By contrast there is virtually no interest in Krause (many of us wouldn't have a clue who he was before you mentioned him) - not surprising therefore that there is limited interest in allegations about a person most aren't interested in and many hadn't hear of previously.

Gordon

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2019, 10:19:11 AM »
The abusive behaviour reported in the world of academia and particular science has recieved no comment on this forum and yet the deeds of Alex Salmond have garnered 12 pages.

Not true: may I refer the honourable gentleman to the 8-page thread he started on this very issue last year (currently locked - see last post there for details).

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=15334.msg724134#new

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2019, 10:32:55 AM »
I suggest that is because Alex Salmond is a much higher profile figure than Lawrence Krause (I'm in academia and a scientist and I'd never heard of him before you brought him up Vlad). Note too that we have a perhaps disproportionate number of posters from Scotland where Salmond has been a dominant public figure for years.

The point being that on this forum there is an intense interest in Salmond as a public figure and therefore it isn't surprising that the allegations are of interest too. By contrast there is virtually no interest in Krause (many of us wouldn't have a clue who he was before you mentioned him) - not surprising therefore that there is limited interest in allegations about a person most aren't interested in and many hadn't hear of previously.
This post perpetuates two myths.
First myth that there isn't room on this forum to discuss Krauss
Second myth that discussing one of the most prominent and self declared atheist is somehow not a valid topic.

The crisis in conduct in academic science, reported recently at length in scientific American is also here imho reduced to Krauss. If the Krauss affair is thus diminished then the conduct issue in science is diminished subsequently.

As regards to being valid only because of interest we have to ask why atheists and antitheists are not interested in the reported conduct of a prominent atheist and self declared antitheist who has espoused the widely held belief that religion makes people bad and science makes people good.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2019, 10:37:29 AM »
Not true: may I refer the honourable gentleman to the 8-page thread he started on this very issue last year (currently locked - see last post there for details).

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=15334.msg724134#new
No
That thread dealt with Krauss as a prominent antitheist....see title...and did not address the wider issue of abuse in academic science.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2019, 11:15:42 AM »
This post perpetuates two myths.
First myth that there isn't room on this forum to discuss Krauss
Who ever said that - you can start a thread on him any time you want. The point is that if most here aren't interested the thread isn't going to be very active. You can start any topic you like, but you cannot force people to be interested or engaged.

Second myth that discussing one of the most prominent and self declared atheist is somehow not a valid topic.
It is no more nor less valid than discussing any other prominent atheist (or theist for that matter). I think your problem is that most people here have probably either never heard of him before and/or have little knowledge or interest in his views on religion. So it may be valid to discuss him but unless there is sufficient interest in him or his views that thread isn't going to get much traction.

The crisis in conduct in academic science, reported recently at length in scientific American is also here imho reduced to Krauss. If the Krauss affair is thus diminished then the conduct issue in science is diminished subsequently.
Now you are being deeply disingenuous. Your reasons for raising the issues of Krause are entirely because he is an atheist, not because he is a scientist. There are plenty of other examples of issues within the scientific and broader academic research communities that don't involve 'prominent antitheist' (as you describe Krause) - why have you never raised these Vlad.

If you want to raise systemic and institutional issues within academic science and research - happy to do so - I suspect I have a darned sight better insight than you. I do not dismiss them - indeed part of my professional duties involve dealing with such issues and helping to develop a more appropriate culture within the academic community. It is you who diminish the issues by linking them to the religious faith or lack thereof of an individual alleged perpetrator.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2019, 11:19:34 AM »
No
That thread dealt with Krauss as a prominent antitheist....see title...and did not address the wider issue of abuse in academic science.
This thread does not address 'the wider issue of abuse in academic science'. You are only interested in publicising this case because Krause is an atheist.


Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2019, 11:34:24 AM »

If you want to raise systemic and institutional issues within academic science and research - happy to do so - I suspect I have a darned sight better insight than you. I do not dismiss them - indeed part of my professional duties involve dealing with such issues and helping to develop a more appropriate culture within the academic community. It is you who diminish the issues by linking them to the religious faith or lack thereof of an individual alleged perpetrator.
This is the religionethics website so obviously Krauss is a valid topic particularly considering his views on religion and science and morality.
As you say you are in a better position to raise the issue of conduct in the world of academic science but the reality is that I am the first to flag it up.Is it less important or valid than Salmond who must only be of interest to viewers in Scotland? Or more pertinent to a forum on which imho many hold that religion causes immorality whereas science imputed righteousness?

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2019, 11:40:38 AM »
This is the religionethics website so obviously Krauss is a valid topic particularly considering his views on religion and science and morality.
As you say you are in a better position to raise the issue of conduct in the world of academic science but the reality is that I am the first to flag it up.Is it less important or valid than Salmond who must only be of interest to viewers in Scotland? Or more pertinent to a forum on which imho many hold that religion causes immorality whereas science imputed righteousness?
You seem a tad confused - which is it Vlad are you:

1. Interested in discussing the 'the wider issue of abuse in academic science', which would be a perfectly appropriate topic on this MB

or

2. Are you only interested in discussing selected individuals alleged wrongdoing to maintain your bizarre obsession with (as you describe them) prominent antitheists.

I suspect the latter - there have been a number of very high profile cases recently in the scientific community, involving people far more eminent in their scientific fields than Krause, yet not a murmur from you. Why - is it perhaps because these individuals have never made public statements about the religion or lack thereof.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2019, 11:54:56 AM »
Quote
Is it less important or valid than Salmond who must only be of interest to viewers in Scotland? Or more pertinent to a forum on which imho many hold that religion causes immorality whereas science imputed righteousness?

Why is Salmond only of interest to viewers in Scotland? Does this mean the Trump thread is only of interest to Americans? Sounds to me like you're talking bollocks.

Your 'imho' is wrong. The first part is nonsense, immorality (however you like to define that, but let us not go there for the moment) is part of the human race. That religious people are "immoral" is no more of a shock to me than the fact that non-religious people are immoral.

As to science imputing righteousness - you are presumably forgetting all the times when "atheist" posters have told you that science is neutral in such matters as morality or righteousness.

Really you are very confused.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2019, 12:07:30 PM »
You seem a tad confused - which is it Vlad are you:

1. Interested in discussing the 'the wider issue of abuse in academic science', which would be a perfectly appropriate topic on this MB

or

2. Are you only interested in discussing selected individuals alleged wrongdoing to maintain your bizarre obsession with (as you describe them) prominent antitheists.

I suspect the latter - there have been a number of very high profile cases recently in the scientific community, involving people far more eminent in their scientific fields than Krause, yet not a murmur from you. Why - is it perhaps because these individuals have never made public statements about the religion or lack thereof.
The moral conduct of prominent commentators on religion is a valid topic of discussion on this board.
Religious founders and lesser personnel are regularly discussed here in that context even God almighty.

The fact is that from early on in his antitheism Krauss, a commentator on religion, has numerically had a far far bigger following than Christ or Mohammed or Buddha at a comparable stage and yet as the threads on Krauss show here the impulse is to not wish to discuss the issue when applied to antitheists.

And lastly may I remind you this is the religionethics forum. There is therefore no reason for me to discuss the issue of abuse in science although it seems I am the first to mention the issue.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2019, 12:10:50 PM »
The moral conduct of prominent commentators on religion is a valid topic of discussion on this board.
But I thought your point was in discussing the 'the wider issue of abuse in academic science'. Still a tad confused Vlad.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: Lawrence Krauss
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2019, 12:14:20 PM »
And lastly may I remind you this is the religionethics forum.
May I remind you that this is the Religion and Ethics MB and therefore any topic related to either religion or ethics is equally welcomed.

Indeed the topic supports topics that are much broader again, e.g. sport.

There is therefore no reason for me to discuss the issue of abuse in science although it seems I am the first to mention the issue.
There is no requirement to discuss any topic, but you have raised the issue of abuse in science - so why not discuss it, rather than use an individual example of alleged wrongdoing as a tool to further your bizarre crusade against (as you see them) prominent antitheists.