Author Topic: EU proposes ending daylight saving  (Read 3931 times)

Roses

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EU proposes ending daylight saving
« on: August 31, 2018, 12:15:03 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45366390

I would prefer the clocks to be the same all the year round, but I doubt this would be popular with people much further north than us.
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jeremyp

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 12:27:09 PM »
Point of information: it is not the EU that has proposed this but the EU Commission. It still has to be approved by the EU states and the EU parliament. I wouldn't normally argue the point but with Brexit, we need to be accurate.

Having said that, I would be in favour of having summer time all year round. I don't like having to bugger around with clocks twice a year and I have seen studies that say lighter afternoons would reduce road deaths.
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Roses

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 12:31:33 PM »
Point of information: it is not the EU that has proposed this but the EU Commission. It still has to be approved by the EU states and the EU parliament. I wouldn't normally argue the point but with Brexit, we need to be accurate.

Having said that, I would be in favour of having summer time all year round. I don't like having to bugger around with clocks twice a year and I have seen studies that say lighter afternoons would reduce road deaths.


That was tried in the mid 60s but scrapped after a couple of years, I think it was, which I have always thought was a pity.
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Shaker

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 12:50:13 PM »
Having said that, I would be in favour of having summer time all year round. I don't like having to bugger around with clocks twice a year and I have seen studies that say lighter afternoons would reduce road deaths.
Tell the Commission:

Quote
There is also no reliable evidence that the clock changes reduce traffic accidents, the Commission says.
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Shaker

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 12:55:48 PM »
I know I may have a macabre sense of humour but while flitting across the Web researching the subject I found this, which elicited a gallows grin:

Quote
In 1999 four would-be terrorists loaded two bombs into two cars. The bombs were set to go off at 6.30pm.

Their intention was to load the bombs onto the luggage racks of two intercity buses before hopping off and driving away.

They armed the bombs in a Palestinian area. Their targets were in Israel.

Israel had turned the clocks back a day before but the bombers hadn't noticed the difference. The bombs blew up at 5.30pm local time while still in their cars, killing the bombers.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Shaker

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2018, 12:57:32 PM »

That was tried in the mid 60s but scrapped after a couple of years, I think it was, which I have always thought was a pity.
1968 to 1971. It was a pity for the Scots in that period:

Quote
Alex Salmond called the campaign an attempt to “plunge Scotland into morning darkness”. The complaints are founded; in the winter, the sun wouldn’t rise until 10am in parts of Scotland. The country’s 1,000 or so dairy farmers, who wake up before 5am, would have to work for hours in the dark. Other farmers and construction workers, who need sunlight to perform their jobs, would end up working later into the evening.
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jeremyp

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2018, 01:05:41 PM »
1968 to 1971. It was a pity for the Scots in that period:

Quote
... in the winter, the sun wouldn’t rise until 10am in parts of Scotland. The country’s 1,000 or so dairy farmers, who wake up before 5am, would have to work for hours in the dark. Other farmers and construction workers, who need sunlight to perform their jobs, would end up working later into the evening.

So 70,000,000 people have to bow to the whim of 1,000 Scottish farmers who didn't have the nouse to set their alarms for 6am instead of 5am in the winter. And given that, on the days when the Sun rises at 9am, it sets at around 4pm, the workers who need daylight would in fact have to work as late as 5pm if summer time was used.
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Shaker

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 01:14:30 PM »
So 70,000,000 people have to bow to the whim of 1,000 Scottish farmers
... that's assuming that 70,000,000 want to stop changing the clocks twice a year and stick to BST all year round. I don't - I don't have a problem with a job of moments twice a year. It's no big deal. A great many clocks and other devices these days do it automatically in any case.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 01:16:58 PM by Shaker »
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jeremyp

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 01:28:33 PM »
... that's assuming that 70,000,000 want to stop changing the clocks twice a year and stick to BST all year round.
No. It's just that there seems to be a lot of concern about a really small group of people - the tail wagging the dog, so to speak.

Quote
I don't - I don't have a problem with a job of moments twice a year. It's no big deal. A great many clocks and other devices these days do it automatically in any case.
I like having a bit of daylight when I leave the office in the evening. At present, during winter, when I leave home in the morning it's dark and when I leave the office in the evening it's dark. A bit more daylight in the late afternoon would be great.
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Anchorman

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 01:34:18 PM »
Point of information: it is not the EU that has proposed this but the EU Commission. It still has to be approved by the EU states and the EU parliament. I wouldn't normally argue the point but with Brexit, we need to be accurate.

Having said that, I would be in favour of having summer time all year round. I don't like having to bugger around with clocks twice a year and I have seen studies that say lighter afternoons would reduce road deaths.
 

Try weorking on the land, producing food or milk.
You'll sing a different song, especially in Scotland.
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Anchorman

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 01:36:54 PM »
1968 to 1971. It was a pity for the Scots in that period:



Yep.
I remember going to school in the pitch dark.
The sun only arose around 9:30, and full dawn by 10:00 am - and that was only Ayrshire.
It was still dark at 10:15 in Aberdeen and Inverness.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Shaker

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2018, 01:39:30 PM »
I like having a bit of daylight when I leave the office in the evening. At present, during winter, when I leave home in the morning it's dark and when I leave the office in the evening it's dark. A bit more daylight in the late afternoon would be great.
If you're leaving the office in the evening you won't have much if any benefit from year-round BST. The closer we get to December 21st, it's dark by half past four or so anyway; changing to BST would make barely any difference. We can't change the planet's axial tilt and most of us can't or don't want to move closer to the equator; the best we can do is juggle the clocks to give the majority of people the most usable daylight when they need it (utilitarianism in action - the greatest happiness of the greatest number), which the present system was designed to do.

I like the dark mornings and afternoons anyway.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 01:42:36 PM by Shaker »
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2018, 01:42:38 PM »
 

Try weorking on the land, producing food or milk.
You'll sing a different song, especially in Scotland.
Don't buy it - if you work on the land you use all the available daylight there is. If the sun rises in winter at 9am and sets at 3pm, that's the time you work. If it rises at 10am and sets at 4pm you start work (the daylight critical part) an hour later and finish it an hour later.

Shifting the time makes no difference to the actual amount of daylight.

SteveH

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2018, 01:45:39 PM »
Nay, nay, and thrice nay! I remember when they tried this in the late 60s, at the behest of big business, It was hugely unpopular, especially oop north and in Scotland, and the government ended the experiment pretty quickly.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2018, 01:50:08 PM »
The only piece of Scottish exceptionalism that I might find significant is about kids going to and from school. Essentially though especially in the north islands we live in a country where it's never light in December. It won't matter after Brexit anyway as Jacob Rees Mogg is developing a cloaking device so that we will only appear once every hundred years.

SteveH

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2018, 01:51:04 PM »
It's always possible for individual employers, if a majority of employees want it, to alter their hours of work; there's no need for a national abolition of daylight saving. Anyway, it's swings and roundabouts: what you gain at one end of the day, you lose at the other end.
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

ProfessorDavey

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2018, 01:56:11 PM »
What frustrates me is the point in the year when we shift.

In the Autumn this is later October, so about 5 weeks the winter side of the equinox. That's the equivalent of mid February. Yet come spring we have to wait until late March, actually on the Summer side of the equinox.

I'd be happy with that change, so keep GMT in the winter and BST in the summer, but make the changes symmetrical either side of the winter solstice - so back in late October and forward in mid Feb.

If we can cope with the sunrise and sunset time in mid Oct on BST we can do so in late Feb, as they are the same.

SteveH

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2018, 01:59:26 PM »
What frustrates me is the point in the year when we shift.

In the Autumn this is later October, so about 5 weeks the winter side of the equinox. That's the equivalent of mid February. Yet come spring we have to wait until late March, actually on the Summer side of the equinox.

I'd be happy with that change, so keep GMT in the winter and BST in the summer, but make the changes symmetrical either side of the winter solstice - so back in late October and forward in mid Feb.

If we can cope with the sunrise and sunset time in mid Oct on BST we can do so in late Feb, as they are the same.
Good point, but why not on the Sundays nearest the equinoxes?
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

Nearly Sane

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2018, 02:00:36 PM »
After Brexit in the sunlit uplands it will always be a beautiful early May morning with the thwack of the cricket bat on the cheeks, and the trilling of lovely maidens as they milk the Jersey, and the sound of church bells is as we burn the ceremonial nigger.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 02:05:00 PM by Nearly Sane »

BeRational

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2018, 02:01:15 PM »
It's always possible for individual employers, if a majority of employees want it, to alter their hours of work; there's no need for a national abolition of daylight saving. Anyway, it's swings and roundabouts: what you gain at one end of the day, you lose at the other end.

That might work for some companies but not others that deal with other companies, as they would have to change their working hours too.
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Roses

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2018, 02:05:24 PM »
After Brexit in the sunlit uplands it will always be a beautiful early May morning with the thwack of the cricket bat on the cheeks, and the trilling of lovely maidens as they milk the Jersey, and the sound of church he is as we burn the ceremonial nigger.

I am surprised at you, that is a highly unpleasant racist comment to which I take great exception! >:(
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Shaker

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2018, 02:05:57 PM »
I am surprised at you, that is a highly unpleasant racist comment to which I take great exception! >:(
It was a sarcastic joke, not an actual racist comment.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair, or fucking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back. - Al Swearengen, Deadwood.

Anchorman

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2018, 02:07:53 PM »
Westminster wanted us in their 'precious union'. It's far pas time they staryed listening to us...if the idiots want to keep us there. Have you ever tried finding yowes in the mirk?
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2018, 02:08:29 PM »
I am surprised at you, that is a highly unpleasant racist comment to which I take great exception! >:(
Take as much exception as you like. Indeed, I have a few large exceptions that you could take. They will need a big van though.

Nearly Sane

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Re: EU proposes ending daylight saving
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2018, 02:09:45 PM »
Westminster wanted us in their 'precious union'. It's far pas time they staryed listening to us...if the idiots want to keep us there. Have you ever tried finding yowes in the mirk?
whatever time you decide it is makes no difference to doing that