One racist PM supports another

[Nearly Sane]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/viktor-orban-conservative-european-parliament-theresa-may-a8534401.html

[jeremyp]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/viktor-orban-conservative-european-parliament-theresa-may-a8534401.html

The article doesn’t say anything about May supporting Orban.

[Nearly Sane]

The article doesn’t say anything about May supporting Orban.

I had been thinking in this case of Orban's support for May's plan, but that the Tory MEPs supported Orban, and May leads the Tories means the vice versa works as well.

[Roses]

I had been thinking in this case of Orban's support for May's plan, but that the Tory MEPs supported Orban, and May leads the Tories means the vice versa works as well.

That doesn't necessarily follow.

[Nearly Sane]

That doesn't necessarily follow.

Why? Orban is a racist. Tories supported him. May leads the Tory Party.

[Roses]

Why? Orban is a racist. Tories supported him. May leads the Tory Party.

You really don't like that poor woman do you?

[Nearly Sane]

Obviously an institutionally anti semitic party


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-orban-hungary-jewish-deputies-board-antisemitism-tory-british-meps-eu-vote-latest-a8535846.html

[Aruntraveller]

You really don't like that poor woman do you?

I have to ask. What's to like?

[Nearly Sane]

You really don't like that poor woman do you?

I don't like that she set up racist policies at the Home Office. Btw what was wrong with the logic of my previous post?

[ProfessorDavey]

Why? Orban is a racist. Tories supported him. May leads the Tory Party.

Some Tories supported him. That doesn't mean that May supports him. All political parties, including the Tories, are a broad church of opinions. It is, at best, muddled thinking to surmise that just because some members of a political party support/oppose a particular person or policy that their leader necessarily does too.

So to provide an analogy - there are plenty of Tories who vehemently oppose the Chequers Brexit proposals - by your inference as May is leader of the Tory party she must too oppose Chequers.

[Roses]

Some Tories supported him. That doesn't mean that May supports him. All political parties, including the Tories, are a broad church of opinions. It is, at best, muddled thinking to surmise that just because some members of a political party support/oppose a particular person or policy that their leader necessarily does too.

So to provide an analogy - there are plenty of Tories who vehemently oppose the Chequers Brexit proposals - by your inference as May is leader of the Tory party she must too oppose Chequers.

I agree.

[Nearly Sane]

Some Tories supported him. That doesn't mean that May supports him. All political parties, including the Tories, are a broad church of opinions. It is, at best, muddled thinking to surmise that just because some members of a political party support/oppose a particular person or policy that their leader necessarily does too.

So to provide an analogy - there are plenty of Tories who vehemently oppose the Chequers Brexit proposals - by your inference as May is leader of the Tory party she must too oppose Chequers.

The Tories are members of the same group in the European parliament that Orban is. May has made no objection to that. She has made no objection to the vote so the analogy with the Chequers plan is specious.

[ProfessorDavey]

The Tories are members of the same group in the European parliament that Orban is. May has made no objection to that. She has made no objection to the vote so the analogy with the Chequers plan is specious.

The current Tory government is in an arrangement with the DUP - does this mean that May necessarily supports all DUP policy positions, for example their opposition to equal marriage. Of course it doesn't.

[Nearly Sane]

The current Tory government is in an arrangement with the DUP - does this mean that May necessarily supports all DUP policy positions, for example their opposition to equal marriage. Of course it doesn't.

Except I didn't say she supported all of his policies, so that's just a strawman.

[ProfessorDavey]

Except I didn't say she supported all of his policies, so that's just a strawman.

OK - I will rephrase:

The current Tory government is in an arrangement with the DUP - does this mean that May necessarily supports any particular DUP policy position, for example their opposition to equal marriage.

[Nearly Sane]

OK - I will rephrase:

The current Tory government is in an arrangement with the DUP - does this mean that May necessarily supports any particular DUP policy position, for example their opposition to equal marriage.

No,but rephrasing the man of straw doesn't help.

Let's say there was a vote to censure the Tory govt and the DUP voted against that. Are you honestly saying that that would in no sense be support of the PM?

[ProfessorDavey]

No,but rephrasing the man of straw doesn't help.

Let's say there was a vote to censure the Tory govt and the DUP voted against that. Are you honestly saying that that would in no sense be support of the PM?

Poor analogy - this vote was in the European Parliament, not in the commons. There will be plenty of examples where Tory members have voted in manners we might find unacceptable (e.g. in Local councils, Welsh/London/Scottish Assembly/Parliament or in the European Parliament. That doesn't mean that May supports that action, let alone support any particular individual who might benefit.

I imagine up and down the country there are examples of Tory councillors voting in support of Labour administrations on certain topics - does that mean (as you seem to be implying) that May supports Corbyn. No it doesn't. It doesn't even mean that May supports Harry Smith, the Labour leader of Bloggshire Council if he has received the support of Tory councillors in a vote.

[Nearly Sane]

Poor analogy - this vote was in the European Parliament, not in the commons. There will be plenty of examples where Tory members have voted in manners we might find unacceptable (e.g. in Local councils, Welsh/London/Scottish Assembly/Parliament or in the European Parliament. That doesn't mean that May supports that action, let alone support any particular individual who might benefit.

I imagine up and down the country there are examples of Tory councillors voting in support of Labour administrations on certain topics - does that mean (as you seem to be implying) that May supports Corbyn. No it doesn't. It doesn't even mean that May supports Harry Smith, the Labour leader of Bloggshire Council if he has received the support of Tory councillors in a vote.

The Tories sit with the same group as Orban, May doesn't object. The Tories vote to support Orban, May doesn't object.

[ProfessorDavey]

The Tories sit with the same group as Orban, May doesn't object. The Tories vote to support Orban, May doesn't object.

You've said this before - none of that means that May specifically supports Orban, let alone specifically supports selected Orban policy positions.

I'm no fan of May, but you are adding two and two and making nine.

[Nearly Sane]

You've said this before - none of that means that May specifically supports Orban, let alone specifically supports selected Orban policy positions.

I'm no fan of May, but you are adding two and two and making nine.

In this case the party she leads voted to support Orban. She hasn't said anything against that or sitting In a group with Orban's party. Anyway already noted my OP was about Orban supporting May's deal.  They are both racists.

[ProfessorDavey]

... or sitting In a group with Orban's party.

In what way is May (or even the Tories) 'sitting in a group with Orban's party' - as far as I'm aware there aren't any Hungarian MEPs in the same European Parliamentary group as the Tories (European Conservatives and Reformists Group).

I agree that Orban's politics are reprehensible and I suspect I am no more a fan of May than you are, but you mustn't let your views against each cloud your judgement as to the support of the latter for the former.

[Nearly Sane]

In what way is May (or even the Tories) 'sitting in a group with Orban's party' - as far as I'm aware there aren't any Hungarian MEPs in the same European Parliamentary group as the Tories (European Conservatives and Reformists Group).

I agree that Orban's politics are reprehensible and I suspect I am no more a fan of May than you are, but you mustn't let your views against each cloud your judgement as to the support of the latter for the former.

Good point. I accept there aren't any  in the grouping. That still leaves the fact that May hasn't spoken out against the vote, that Orban is a racist and May is a racist.

[ProfessorDavey]

Good point. I accept there aren't any  in the grouping.

Which rather destroys your argument doesn't it.

[Nearly Sane]

Which rather destroys your argument doesn't it.

Since you ignored the rest of the post, no.

[Nearly Sane]

Which rather destroys your argument doesn't it.

And just to add, you seem also to have ignored the point about Organ being the racist PM supporting May, another racist PM which was the point of the OP.