Croydon cat killer 'does not exist' says Met

[Shaker]

A three-year investigation concludes that wild animals are responsible: https://tinyurl.com/y8c4xx7c

Based on what I've read of the mutilations suffered by the cats, I'm not buying what they're selling.

[Rhiannon]

I don’t know, but it is true that foxes take cats (usually old, young or vulnerable) and the notion that urban foxes exist solely on discarded KFC is a load of fluffy bunny cobblers.

[Roses]

A three-year investigation concludes that wild animals are responsible: https://tinyurl.com/y8c4xx7c

Based on what I've read of the mutilations suffered by the cats, I'm not buying what they're selling.

The police are over stretched as it is, investigating crimes against the humans is far more important than looking for a cat killer. There are plenty of urban foxes so they could be responsible.

[Shaker]

I don’t know, but it is true that foxes take cats (usually old, young or vulnerable) and the notion that urban foxes exist solely on discarded KFC is a load of fluffy bunny cobblers.

The exceptions are important - a fit and healthy cat in the prime of life is easily a match for a fox (who will invariably come off worse). The Met would have us believe that every single one of the 400+ cats killed was therefore young, old or vulnerable in some other way. Really?

[Rhiannon]

If people are getting their cars smashed you’d want it investigated. What’s the difference if someone is damaging cars instead? They are still property.

(And yes, Shaker, I know, but I’m talking to LR here).

[Shaker]

The police are over stretched as it is, investigating crimes against the humans is far more important than looking for a cat killer. There are plenty of urban foxes so they could be responsible.

Given the appalling distress caused to the owners of these cats, a comment as contemptible as it was entirely predictable.

[Rhiannon]

The exceptions are important - a fit and healthy cat in the prime of life is easily a match for a fox (who will invariably come off worse). The Met would have us believe that every single one of the cats killed was therefore young, old or vulnerable in some other way. Really?

It’s not actually true that cats always beat foxes. Urban foxes can be big and strong and dwarf a cat, even a healthy one. We assume it had to be a confrontation but a fox can take a sleeping cat by stealth. Who knows?

[Shaker]

It’s not actually true that cats always beat foxes.

No, but then that's not what I said. 

Urban foxes can be big and strong and dwarf a cat, even a healthy one. We assume it had to be a confrontation but a fox can take a sleeping cat by stealth. Who knows?

The one time that you can guarantee that urban foxes and domestic moggies will be in a position to encounter each other will be at night - cats are not going to be out and about fancying forty winks. They're out hunting and doing the three Fs, the same as the foxes. All the research I've read states that in the vast majority of cases cats and foxes are indifferent to each other - their paths cross but they ignore each other for the most part unless certain circumstances pit them against each other.

Given that previous expert opinion (RSPCA; vets etc.) had indicated human activity at work, the whole thing smacks of the Met eagerly reaching for an implausible but convenient 'explanation' and washing their hands of the affair.

Commander Amanda Pearson said each individual report had to be investigated, which led to an "increased workload" for officers working on the case.

Telling.

[Rhiannon]

The RSPCA are full of shit.

[Rhiannon]

This includes useful info including something from a science-y expert chap.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon_Cat_Killer

Actually people are the likely culprits - by driving cars.

[Harrowby Hall]

I recall, perhaps a couple of years ago, another member from Trent's neck of the woods who took pride in feeding feral foxes. The fact that he was encouraging foxes to live in an environment which was less than suited to their normal lifestyle was of little consequence to him. I recall doing a little investigation into the effects of semi-urban living on foxes and learning that - because they were living in (for foxes) a crowded environment their health suffered. In particular, it appeared that mange was endemic and that this resulted in a high death rate among cubs.

As has already been stated, a fit and healthy cat is quite capable of dealing with a fox. I even recall seeing a fox running away from my own cat, who, though small, was puffed up like a football and bouncing up and down on her toenails. (She didn't like dogs and I had to warn dog owners who came to visit.)

I suspect that - to some extent - some of the Croydon cats may be victims of foxes but also that the police are using this as a means of getting out of an investigation they are not comfortable with ...

[jeremyp]

It’s not actually true that cats always beat foxes. Urban foxes can be big and strong and dwarf a cat, even a healthy one. We assume it had to be a confrontation but a fox can take a sleeping cat by stealth. Who knows?

Cats fight literally with tooth and claw. Foxes fight with just tooth. Cats generally have the advantage over foxes. Of course, this is real life and it’s a fight and “generally” does not mean “always”.

[Shaker]

I recall, perhaps a couple of years ago, another member from Trent's neck of the woods who took pride in feeding feral foxes. The fact that he was encouraging foxes to live in an environment which was less than suited to their normal lifestyle was of little consequence to him.

That ship sailed a long long time ago though, and as more and more countryside disappears it's not going to get any better.

I suspect that - to some extent - some of the Croydon cats may be victims of foxes but also that the police are using this as a means of getting out of an investigation they are not comfortable with ...

My thoughts entirely.

[jeremyp]

This includes useful info including something from a science-y expert chap.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon_Cat_Killer

Actually people are the likely culprits - by driving cars.

Ok so having read that, I think it is quite likely there is no Croydon cat killer. For a start, when I was first reading this thread, I assumed that all the killings were in Croydon and that was a wrong assumption. Since the killings are country wide, I’m more inclined to believe that people are just taking random cat deaths that appear to fit the “MO” and assigning them to the cat killer for no other reason.

[SteveH]

Commander Amanda Pearson said each individual report had to be investigated, which led to an "increased workload" for officers working on the case.

Commander Amanda Pearson fears an unceasing increasing burden is certain.

[Rhiannon]

Ok so having read that, I think it is quite likely there is no Croydon cat killer. For a start, when I was first reading this thread, I assumed that all the killings were in Croydon and that was a wrong assumption. Since the killings are country wide, I’m more inclined to believe that people are just taking random cat deaths that appear to fit the “MO” and assigning them to the cat killer for no other reason.

I didn't know about fox DNA being found on some of the corpses.

[Shaker]

I didn't know about fox DNA being found on some of the corpses.

Not exactly a revelation in urban areas, I'd have thought. I'd hazard a guess that you would similarly find badger and hedgehog DNA and DNA of all the other wild but urban-dwelling fauna whose territory overlaps with cats; but they're not being touted as responsible.

Still, as someone on Twitter observed, foxes are wily creatures:

Those same foxes cloned my bank card and emptied my account, used the proceeds to buy cocaine and then beat up my neighbour.

[Rhiannon]

I find it weird that people are ignoring the science people, the behaviourists, CCTV evidence and even the RSPCA themselves (see Wiki article) in favour of hunches, rumours and Twitter. I agree with the Wiki thing that this feels like moral panic.

But hey, I guess the thought of an acne-scarred, woman-hating cat torturer floats the boat of some people more than the prosaic solution of cats getting killed by cars. And in a strange way I guess one nutter is a comfort - he can be caught - whereas cars are everywhere.

[Shaker]

I find it weird that people are ignoring the science people, the behaviourists, CCTV evidence and even the RSPCA themselves

Not sure you can invoke them since

The RSPCA are full of shit.

But hey, I guess the thought of an acne-scarred, woman-hating cat torturer floats the boat of some people more than the prosaic solution of cats getting killed by cars. And in a strange way I guess one nutter is a comfort - he can be caught - whereas cars are everywhere.

And of course if it's cars-and-foxes*, it's not an issue for the bacon any more, case closed.

*Foxes so cunning they can wrap the severed heads of car-killed cats in plastic carrier bags: https://tinyurl.com/yb6l99yz

[Rhiannon]

I do think the RSPCA are full of shit. Not sure why a vegan like yourself would want to listen to them given their policies on seal slaughter. But even they agree with the experts here.

Finding a dead cat, or part of, putting it in a carrier bag to get rid, fox finding it and pulling it out... was just reading elsewhere about a dead cat being disposed of in a rubbish bag.

Look, you are one of the guys here who taught me to be suspicious of urban myth, making facts fit an presumption, pressure groups and moral panic, and to listen to reasoned expertise and what the science says. Take the police out of it and the experts are saying the same things. I see no reason why they would risk their reputations unless they were sure of what they were saying.

[Shaker]

I do think the RSPCA are full of shit. Not sure why a vegan like yourself would want to listen to them given their policies on seal slaughter. But even they agree with the experts here.

Or rather they agree with some experts. In fine, they agree with the ones they agree with and not the ones they don't ... especially when the experts contradict themselves.

Finding a dead cat, or part of, putting it in a carrier bag to get rid, fox finding it and pulling it out... was just reading elsewhere about a dead cat being disposed of in a rubbish bag.

On the owner's own doorstep?

Look, you are one of the guys here who taught me to be suspicious of urban myth, making facts fit an presumption, pressure groups and moral panic, and to listen to reasoned expertise and what the science says.

A moral panic is moronic shit about Child's Play 3 and back masking on Judas Priest albums, not reports of animal owners (not just cats) detailing consistent patterns of mutilation running into the hundreds.

Take the police out of it and the experts are saying the same things.

Actually they're not: https://tinyurl.com/ycphslpb

[SteveH]

I certainly don't always agree with Rhiannon, but she's right here. Some people just love a mystery and a conspiracy.

[Nearly Sane]

I certainly don't always agree with Rhiannon, but she's right here. Some people just love a mystery and a conspiracy.

Having used a similar trope as regards Theresa May earlier, I am wondering what the intended effect is. Why do we think it if significance of we don't normally agree with someone. The arguments are either right or wrong and that they are made by someone we might normally disagree with adds nothing to them.

[Robbie]

I certainly don't always agree with Rhiannon, but she's right here.

You've said the same about LR. Not necessary, no-one expects to agree about everything so not worth mentioning.

Having used a similar trope as regards Theresa May earlier, I am wondering what the intended effect is. Why do we think it if significance of we don't normally agree with someone. The arguments are either right or wrong and that they are made by someone we might normally disagree with adds nothing to them.

Quite.

[jeremyp]

I find it weird that people are ignoring the science people, the behaviourists, CCTV evidence and even the RSPCA themselves (see Wiki article) in favour of hunches, rumours and Twitter. I agree with the Wiki thing that this feels like moral panic.

But hey, I guess the thought of an acne-scarred, woman-hating cat torturer floats the boat of some people more than the prosaic solution of cats getting killed by cars. And in a strange way I guess one nutter is a comfort - he can be caught - whereas cars are everywhere.

It has the hallmarks of a classic conspiracy theory