Private school fees in minister's funding claims'

[ProfessorDavey]

PD, I can't say I'm surprised by your observations on the Huntingdon parish councils.

In my area,  a parish council was established in 2010 following a ballot (I voted against having one).

Apart from one ward,  each ward returns either all LibDem or Conservative candidates. At least two of the parish councilors are also borough councilors.
 
No members of the public ever turn up to a meeting mainly as (from the minutes) they are clearly well beyond tedious. The main items of discussion are the accounts and maintenance of the two sports / park buildings the parish council are responsible for. Frankly, the meetings of the local scout exec were/are much more interesting, useful and significant.

One good outcome was that a friend of ours was taken on part time (paid) as clerk after redundancy from his previous job.

I'm not sure what happens when there are vacancies on a parish council due to lack of candidates - perhaps you can just apply later and get on the council - who knows.

But we have a fundamental failure of democracy - the whole notion of a democratically elected representation is that there is some kind of competition with the electorate having the choice to decide via that ballot box.

[Harrowby Hall]

I was a parish councillor for eight years -for four of those years I was the chairman. I was originally co-opted onto the council because there were insufficient candidates to fill all the seats. When I left the council there were enough candidates to require an election.

I found Prof Davey's comments interesting - because they portrayed  a world that was totally different from the one I had experienced. Perhaps the main difference was that not one member of my council at any time had any political party affiliation. We were all inhabitants of the village, all concerned with life in the village, and all wishing to make life in the village better. I find Rhiannon's negative comment about parish councillors:

 

aside from the corruption at parish level, which is eye watering, and no, you can't do anything by trying to stand or vote for someone else because it is all stitched up in advance

 so far from my own experience that it is practically insulting.

During my membership we improved street lighting, we got public footpaths properly defined and maintained. We managed to prevent hedgerows from being cut back in the  spring and summer so that birds could breed undisturbed. We re-equipped a children's playground. We enabled the building of a number houses for social provision and prevented the transformation of nursery land into into a very upmarket speculative housing development.

Not one of these actions was motivated by anything than the needs of and benefits to the community.

During my period as chairman, I was interviewed for local radio, appeared on Midlands Today, met members of a House of Lords committee looking into rural housing and led a small delegation which resulted in my village being judged the county Village of the Year.

And all without the benefit of any political label.

[Rhiannon]

The chairman of my former parish council used to trouser bribes from local contractors for work. Everyone knew. Then when elections came up the farmers on the council would 'invite' a suitable candidate to join, if there was a vacancy. Otherwise they just all stood again unopposed. When an 'outsider'; decided to stand against them things were made difficult, as can be the way in a small community. Only happened once in twenty years.

But what the fuck do I know? I'm just a stupid insulting bint.

[Harrowby Hall]

Your statement "corruption at parish level" is written as a generalisation. The fact that you know of one instance of corruption does not make it commonplace. If your instance was known and verifiable, why was it not reported to the police?

My experience of being a parish councillor is different - as I explained.



And I really think that you should remove your final sentence. The sentiment expressed is not one that I share.

[Rhiannon]

But I can only report on what I know. Aside from the parish level I've had to replace four car tyres this year due to pothole damage, plus one wheel spring. It's money I can't afford. Cutbacks have eaten into my money and there are fewer working services that do their job adequately. My kids don't get adequate health care or education. And Brexit is going to make things worse.

You said I was insulting. I think my comment is fair.

[Harrowby Hall]

None of the situations you mention are the responsibility of parish councils. So why vent your anger in the way you have done? It seems to me that you consider all levels of government to be inadequate so you attack all of them indiscriminately.

You - without any qualification - said that "corruption at parish level ... is eye watering".  The only implication any reader can draw from this therefore is that all local government at the lowest level is corrupt and that this corruption is widespread. It may - conceivably - not be what you meant but it is what you have written. Nowhere is there any indication that you are referring only to a single council that you have information about, you generalise. You have implied that  because I had been a parish councillor that I was possibly corrupt. You ignore the reality that many people serve as parish councillors because of their conviction that the communities in which they live are worth serving and attention. This where the possible insult lay.

And instead of looking back at what you have written and considering whether or not it should be modified, you engage in a kind of self-directed vituperation and imply that I possess an attitude towards you which is very far from reality. I realise that the discussion between you and Prof Davey, earlier in this thread became confrontational. I had no part in that.

[Rhiannon]

'Aside from the parish level'... did you not read that bit?

Your parish was lucky to get a chair in you who didn't take bungs and who didn't act in the interest of a minority of landowners. Perhaps your parish is big enough that it can't happen where you are.

Each of us can only go by personal experience and for me all levels of government are failing. And it is scary.

[ProfessorDavey]

The chairman of my former parish council used to trouser bribes from local contractors for work. Everyone knew.

Then why didn't anyone report him to the authorities, which would have resulted in him being banned from serving in public office at the least.

Then when elections came up the farmers on the council would 'invite' a suitable candidate to join, if there was a vacancy.

Who gets to stand in a local election (including parish councils) isn't on the behest of those already on the council (for obvious reasons). All you need to do to be able to stand is to fill in a short form and get a tiny number of people (I think even for district councils this is about 5) to nominate you. 

Otherwise they just all stood again unopposed. When an 'outsider'; decided to stand against them things were made difficult, as can be the way in a small community. Only happened once in twenty years.

How can they make it difficult - break their hands to prevent them being able to fill in and submit the form. We are talking about 21st century Britain, not the wild west. And, of course, intimidation in order to rig an electoral process is a very serious offence - so again why wasn't this reported to the authorities if individuals were genuinely being threatened to prevent them standing.

Given that you've indicated there were vacancies all it would have taken for a newcomer to become a councillor was to fill in and submit a form and they'd be on the council unopposed. That only once in 20 years did someone other than the usual suspects stand sounds to me like apathy, which is of course the problem throughout the land. Indeed HH speaks of the same from his experience - not enough candidates to fill the places.

The average size of a parish council is just under 2000 electors - are you really claiming that more than a thousand people (even in a small parish) in a community are cowed by just a handful?

[ProfessorDavey]

Then why didn't anyone report him to the authorities, which would have resulted in him being banned from serving in public office at the least.
Who gets to stand in a local election (including parish councils) isn't on the behest of those already on the council (for obvious reasons). All you need to do to be able to stand is to fill in a short form and get a tiny number of people (I think even for district councils this is about 5) to nominate you. 
How can they make it difficult - break their hands to prevent them being able to fill in and submit the form. We are talking about 21st century Britain, not the wild west. And, of course, intimidation in order to rig an electoral process is a very serious offence - so again why wasn't this reported to the authorities if individuals were genuinely being threatened to prevent them standing.

Given that you've indicated there were vacancies all it would have taken for a newcomer to become a councillor was to fill in and submit a form and they'd be on the council unopposed. That only once in 20 years did someone other than the usual suspects stand sounds to me like apathy, which is of course the problem throughout the land. Indeed HH speaks of the same from his experience - not enough candidates to fill the places.

The average size of a parish council is just under 2000 electors - are you really claiming that more than a thousand people (even in a small parish) in a community are cowed by just a handful?

I've just checked - to stand for a parish council you need just 2 people to nominate you, a proposer and a seconder. The forms are available publicly to download, they are to be delivered to the returning officer who, is of course completely independent of the councillors themselves. How on earth can the existing councillors prevent someone from doing this? And of course if they were able to (which they can't) they would be committing a serious offence.

[Rhiannon]

Of course, I'm talking absolute wankery. I hand the floor to google because my personal experience is pure hallucination.

And now I'm fucking off to have a fucking life.

[Robbie]

Oh Rhi don't get so defensive &cross, you're better than that.
Hope you have a good evening.

Going back to an earlier post of yours which I've just read, I know schools are seriously underfunded & the NHS is overstretched but what health care do your children not receive? If it's not too personal to ask, u don't have to answer.

[ProfessorDavey]

Your statement "corruption at parish level" is written as a generalisation. The fact that you know of one instance of corruption does not make it commonplace. If your instance was known and verifiable, why was it not reported to the police?

My experience of being a parish councillor is different - as I explained.



And I really think that you should remove your final sentence. The sentiment expressed is not one that I share.

I have a lot of respect for people who are prepared to put themselves forward for public service.

Most people cannot be arsed, and although I might not agree with them politically (and may disagree therefore with some decisions those people make) that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be grateful to the people prepared to stand for elected office. Let's face it, certainly at council level, they don't get paid and are far more likely to get criticism than praise. A thankless job but an important one nonetheless.

[ProfessorDavey]

Aside from the parish level I've had to replace four car tyres this year due to pothole damage, plus one wheel spring. It's money I can't afford.

I'm not really sure it is fair to lay the blame for this on local councillors (presumably County councillors in this case) in the current climate. These councils have responsibilities but also have to work within the budgets they have, which have been massively slashed over the past few years. So they have much less money available and have to take really tough decisions as to how those cuts cascade down into finding of services. In my view they face an almost impossible task at the moment.

So it may well be that the council in your area has taken a decision that they will try to minimise the cuts to school funding and care (for example), but the consequence is that the have had to cut the budget for road repairs even further. What would you have them do - would you prioritise potholes over children's services (for example) - noting that the one thing you cannot do is maintain funding across the board as the councils have very significantly less funding (in real and likely in cash terms) compared to a few years ago.

Now blame for that lies really with central government who have imposed the cuts - it may be that the local councillors are doing a fantastic job in minimise the effects of those stringent cuts, but they will, of course, receive criticism if there is an unrepaired pothole in your road.

Somehow it seems unfair to lay the blame at local councillors - the equivalent would be to blame a headteacher for having to increase class sizes because of funding cuts - in these circumstances I think few people would blame the headteacher, they'd blame the government. So why, in an equivalent funding cut circumstance, should we blame the local councillors who are, I'm sure, working to do their best to deliver services with substantially less funding.