Author Topic: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.  (Read 30761 times)

Rhiannon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #375 on: October 30, 2018, 01:21:12 PM »
I am beginning to wonder if spud is a gay in denial. Maybe he thinks if he disses homosexuality in the way he is doing, god will look favourably on him and 'cure' him. ::)

'A gay' sounds like something out of the 1960's.

Rhiannon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #376 on: October 30, 2018, 01:23:51 PM »
First; there's plenty of evidence to suggest we are related to quadrapedal animals. Heck, there's plenty of evidence to syggest we're related to radishes. It's called DNA. That does not negate the Christian position on sex outside the male-female bond ....for the Christian, Spud. It's not on...whether with a man, woman, chicken oy lamp post. It is, indeed, sin. So are a lot of things. But suggesting it can be a lifestyle choice, or can be 'cured' is on a par with suggesting I can cure the fact that I don't have a left eye. I can't. I can, however deal with it. I get really fed up with my fellow evangelicals who throw a wobbly every time the gay thing comes up. It happens in the animal kingdom as well; not a disability, not a lifestyle choice; just a thing. That's where faith comes in; faith to cope with the situation in the light of Scripture. You know as well as I do the attitude in most ancient cultures - Israel included - to disability in general, and blindness in particular. It was a mark of shame; some thought it was a mark of sin...though Jesus told them where to go as far as that went. Yet many, myself included, believe that Paul himself was suffering from extremely poor eyesight at the time of his trial before the Sanhedrin and his subsequent imprisonment...yet God chos to continue to use him in ways which changed, and still change,lives. Did God remove his visual impairment? Not that we can discern. Did this 'mark of shame' stop him in any way? Not a bit of it! Did he learn to live with it in the light of Scripture? Look for yourself. Same with sexuality, whether homosexual, heterosexual or promiscuity. Faith is the answer...not  condemnation.

So why then has your god created something natural and then said that two people who want to celebrate what their natural God-given inclination is through commitment, love, sex and marriage are sinning and deserve to be damned? You loving god stops being so loving at that point.

Roses

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #377 on: October 30, 2018, 01:53:27 PM »
'A gay' sounds like something out of the 1960's.


What do you mean?
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Rhiannon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #378 on: October 30, 2018, 03:36:34 PM »

What do you mean?

It's disrespectful. Someone can be gay, or they can be a gay person.

Anchorman

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #379 on: October 30, 2018, 03:50:38 PM »
So why then has your god created something natural and then said that two people who want to celebrate what their natural God-given inclination is through commitment, love, sex and marriage are sinning and deserve to be damned? You loving god stops being so loving at that point.
 



While love has no limits, society has.
Again, I hae neber condembned gat marriage - secular marriage; nor do I do so now.
However sex outside marriage - for the Christian - is sin - regardless of gender.
And Christian marriage is between man and woman.
I cannot see any other way of defining Christian marriage in accordance with New Testament values.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #380 on: October 30, 2018, 03:51:55 PM »
 



While love has no limits, society has.
Again, I hae neber condembned gat marriage - secular marriage; nor do I do so now.
However sex outside marriage - for the Christian - is sin - regardless of gender.
And Christian marriage is between man and woman.
I cannot see any other way of defining Christian marriage in accordance with New Testament values.

And yet, slavery, women in church, you tell me your god is the god of love. Your beliefs mock that.

I'm glad your church is dividing and dying. The truth is, you are right, love has no limits. It will be a relief when Christianity stops imposing them.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #381 on: October 30, 2018, 04:01:11 PM »
 



While love has no limits, society has.
Again, I hae neber condembned gat marriage - secular marriage; nor do I do so now.
However sex outside marriage - for the Christian - is sin - regardless of gender.
And Christian marriage is between man and woman.
I cannot see any other way of defining Christian marriage in accordance with New Testament values.

But surely you can see that two people loving each other isn't necessarily a  bad thing? Doesn't that make you pause in your belief that your god doesn't see that?

Roses

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #382 on: November 01, 2018, 01:50:21 PM »
 



While love has no limits, society has.
Again, I hae neber condembned gat marriage - secular marriage; nor do I do so now.
However sex outside marriage - for the Christian - is sin - regardless of gender.
And Christian marriage is between man and woman.
I cannot see any other way of defining Christian marriage in accordance with New Testament values.

God had no compunction about getting Mary up the duff, but it wasn't married to her, if that crazy tale has any credibility!
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Spud

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #383 on: November 16, 2018, 04:03:44 PM »
First; there's plenty of evidence to suggest we are related to quadrapedal animals. Heck, there's plenty of evidence to syggest we're related to radishes. It's called DNA. That does not negate the Christian position on sex outside the male-female bond ....for the Christian, Spud. It's not on...whether with a man, woman, chicken oy lamp post. It is, indeed, sin. So are a lot of things. But suggesting it can be a lifestyle choice, or can be 'cured' is on a par with suggesting I can cure the fact that I don't have a left eye. I can't. I can, however deal with it. I get really fed up with my fellow evangelicals who throw a wobbly every time the gay thing comes up. It happens in the animal kingdom as well; not a disability, not a lifestyle choice; just a thing. That's where faith comes in; faith to cope with the situation in the light of Scripture. You know as well as I do the attitude in most ancient cultures - Israel included - to disability in general, and blindness in particular. It was a mark of shame; some thought it was a mark of sin...though Jesus told them where to go as far as that went. Yet many, myself included, believe that Paul himself was suffering from extremely poor eyesight at the time of his trial before the Sanhedrin and his subsequent imprisonment...yet God chos to continue to use him in ways which changed, and still change,lives. Did God remove his visual impairment? Not that we can discern. Did this 'mark of shame' stop him in any way? Not a bit of it! Did he learn to live with it in the light of Scripture? Look for yourself. Same with sexuality, whether homosexual, heterosexual or promiscuity. Faith is the answer...not  condemnation.
Thanks.
In case you think that same sex attraction is unchangeable: I know someone who has been open with me about having same-sex attraction in the past, but recently told me that a friend of his has unwittingly said something that enabled him to change his orientation.

I note that this person I know hasn't practiced homosexuality, except once as a teen. This makes me think it's possible that those who do practice it may in time become less able to change orientation later on. At some point I may be able to ask him what was said. I just thought I would mention it, as it may be that same sex attraction is not unchangeable, despite the insistence of many that it is.

You are right that for the Christian, sex should be between a husband and wife. People other than Christians also believe this, though, simply out of respect for it as the bond on which the family is based or just through knowledge of anatomy and physiology.

Roses

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #384 on: November 16, 2018, 04:31:05 PM »
As there is nothing wrong with being gay, why should anyone wish to change to being a heterosexual? There are many gay Christians, and some churches will conduct gay marriage. If god was a good entity it would  have no problem with people being gay.
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Gordon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #385 on: November 16, 2018, 04:58:54 PM »
Thanks.
In case you think that same sex attraction is unchangeable: I know someone who has been open with me about having same-sex attraction in the past, but recently told me that a friend of his has unwittingly said something that enabled him to change his orientation.

I note that this person I know hasn't practiced homosexuality, except once as a teen. This makes me think it's possible that those who do practice it may in time become less able to change orientation later on. At some point I may be able to ask him what was said. I just thought I would mention it, as it may be that same sex attraction is not unchangeable, despite the insistence of many that it is.

You are right that for the Christian, sex should be between a husband and wife. People other than Christians also believe this, though, simply out of respect for it as the bond on which the family is based or just through knowledge of anatomy and physiology.

Or, Spud, you could just stop worrying about homosexuality, mind your own business, treat people as individuals, respect their individuality and privacy and simply let people live their lives as they see fit without reference to your personal preferences.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #386 on: November 16, 2018, 05:07:17 PM »
Quote
People other than Christians also believe this, though, simply out of respect for it as the bond on which the family is based or just through knowledge of anatomy and physiology.

Sweeping generalisation or lie?

Just stop being fucking insulting. Stop endorsing gay conversion therapy and just go and clean your teeth.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

wigginhall

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #387 on: November 16, 2018, 05:18:24 PM »
Yes, spud, stop being so nasty about gays.  Your posts on this are quite sick.
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #388 on: November 16, 2018, 06:52:47 PM »
Let's be honest all sorts of people are trying to convert all sorts of people all the time. What do you think Dawkins and Graham are/were about.

Yes you get horror stories about people dispensing these services and yes you get surgeons botching buttock lifts.

The big dilemma is how do you approach someone who wants these services.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #389 on: November 16, 2018, 07:04:44 PM »
Let's be honest all sorts of people are trying to convert all sorts of people all the time. What do you think Dawkins and Graham are/were about.

Yes you get horror stories about people dispensing these services and yes you get surgeons botching buttock lifts.

The big dilemma is how do you approach someone who wants these services.


I'm not going to get into this with you. It's harmful. It's wrong. It does not belong in a civilised society. Do not get me started on this one.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #390 on: November 16, 2018, 07:05:42 PM »
As there is nothing wrong with being gay, why should anyone wish to change to being a heterosexual?
Why should anyone wish to change from being a man to being a woman?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #391 on: November 16, 2018, 07:09:59 PM »

I'm not going to get into this with you. It's harmful. It's wrong. It does not belong in a civilised society. Do not get me started on this one.
No.....How do you approach someone who wants this service particularly if you are both strongly against it yet agreed with Gordon about leaving people be.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #392 on: November 16, 2018, 07:28:48 PM »
No.....How do you approach someone who wants this service particularly if you are both strongly against it yet agreed with Gordon about leaving people be.

Create a level playing field first where gay people are treated equally and are respected.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy

Please read and digest and pay particular notice to this part:

Quote
The potential risks of “reparative therapy” are great and include depression, anxiety, and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone “reparative therapy” relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian are not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed...
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #393 on: November 16, 2018, 07:56:11 PM »
Create a level playing field first where gay people are treated equally and are respected.

As laudable as that may be, how does it answer what I am saying?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #394 on: November 16, 2018, 08:10:34 PM »
What about the person who thinks it is right to support someone in assisted dying, but heinous to support someone who wants these services?

Gordon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #395 on: November 16, 2018, 08:18:43 PM »
As laudable as that may be, how does it answer what I am saying?

You seem to be going down a slippery slope route, Vlad: my comment of respecting individuality and privacy in matters of personal sexuality does not imply approval for particular approaches that might be harmful unless properly assessed and supervised, such as medical interventions - and there are concerns about so-called 'reparative' therapy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44686374

Aruntraveller

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #396 on: November 16, 2018, 08:22:05 PM »
As laudable as that may be, how does it answer what I am saying?

Because Conversion Therapy doesn't assume or even acknowledge that there should be a level playing field. Therefore it is the strong abusing the weak.

I'm not playing your word games - I don't care about your fucking obsession with Dawkins. He hasn't made people sick by forcing them to take drugs or by applying electric shocks to their testicles. I really do suggest you STFU about this area. You know nothing about it. To even suggest supporting it or allowing it, is supporting abuse.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Gordon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #397 on: November 16, 2018, 08:33:07 PM »
What about the person who thinks it is right to support someone in assisted dying, but heinous to support someone who wants these services?

This is, as you note yourself, an example of whataboutery on your part.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #398 on: November 16, 2018, 09:56:16 PM »
I really do suggest you STFU about this area.
Charming.
Wanting to shut down ethical questions on a forum with "ethics' in the title.......we're done I suggest.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 10:00:10 PM by Phyllis Tyne »

Rhiannon

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Re: Same Sex Marriage Re-Visited.
« Reply #399 on: November 16, 2018, 10:04:45 PM »
Charming.
Wanting to shut down ethical questions on a forum with "ethics' in the title.......we're done I suggest.

There's fuck all that is 'ethical' about your behaviour on this thread.