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Author Topic: Blasphemy  (Read 3980 times)

Roses

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Blasphemy
« on: October 20, 2018, 04:13:10 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45903094

I see Ireland is to have a referendum to see if there is support for getting rid of their blasphemy law. I hope there is an overwhelming YES vote. One should be able to express one's opinion about the unpleasant god character in the Bible, or any other god for that matter.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 09:33:25 AM by Littleroses »
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SteveH

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2018, 12:40:34 PM »
There should, however, be a law against being a Moderator: Content removed, who is forever banging on about the "unpleasant god character". Get over it, ffs!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:49:06 PM by Nearly Sane »
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 01:52:29 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 23, 2018, 12:40:34 PM
There should, however, be a law against being a Moderator: Content removed, who is forever banging on about the "unpleasant god character". Get over it, ffs!


I will keep banging on about it, so you better get used to it or ignore my posts.
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Robbie

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 04:52:41 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 23, 2018, 12:40:34 PM
There should, however, be a law against being a Moderator: Content removed, who is forever banging on about the "unpleasant god character". Get over it, ffs!

 ;D  You neglected to put 'imo' at the end of the first sentence SteveH.
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jeremyp

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 06:55:58 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 23, 2018, 12:40:34 PM
There should, however, be a law against being a Moderator: Content removed, who is forever banging on about the "unpleasant god character". Get over it, ffs!

Got anything to say about the referendum about blasphemy?

Although we got rid of our blasphemy laws, we seem to be doing our best to make new ones.
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SteveH

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 10:36:16 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp on October 23, 2018, 06:55:58 PM
Got anything to say about the referendum about blasphemy?

Although we got rid of our blasphemy laws, we seem to be doing our best to make new ones.
Yes - all blasphemy laws belong in the dustbin, and I don't like "hate speech" laws, either.
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 08:42:53 AM »
Whilst blasphemy laws are daft because there no evidence any god exists, hate speech is disgusting because it is directed at those who do exist. Racism and homophobic bigotry are particularly nasty.
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SteveH

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 08:53:10 AM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 24, 2018, 08:42:53 AM
Whilst blasphemy laws are daft because there no evidence any god exists, hate speech is disgusting because it is directed at those who do exist. Racism and homophobic bigotry are particularly nasty.
Yes, they are, but they shouldn't be illegal, unless there is clear incitement to violence.
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 09:03:36 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 24, 2018, 08:53:10 AM
Yes, they are, but they shouldn't be illegal, unless there is clear incitement to violence.

Of course it should be illegal because of the emotional damage it does. Do you think it should be still acceptable to put up a notice saying, 'No black here', as happened in the past?
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SteveH

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 09:24:30 AM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 24, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
Of course it should be illegal because of the emotional damage it does. Do you think it should be still acceptable to put up a notice saying, 'No black here', as happened in the past?
"Emotional damage" is too vague to make something illegal. Free speech applies to despicable people as well, or it is worthless.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2018, 09:26:32 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 24, 2018, 08:53:10 AM
Yes, they are, but they shouldn't be illegal, unless there is clear incitement to violence.

I think the problem is that hate speech does incite violence in those who read it.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2018, 09:28:35 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 24, 2018, 09:24:30 AM
"Emotional damage" is too vague to make something illegal. Free speech applies to despicable people as well, or it is worthless.

No it isn't. 'Emotional damage' makes people afraid to leave their homes, it makes them self harm, it makes them ashamed to come out or tp otherwise be themselves. It's not vague at all.
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2018, 09:33:05 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 24, 2018, 09:24:30 AM
"Emotional damage" is too vague to make something illegal. Free speech applies to despicable people as well, or it is worthless.

Speech should only be free to a point, NOT if it causes harm. You didn't answer my question, do you think it is acceptable to have a notice up stating, 'No blacks here'?
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2018, 09:33:34 AM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on October 24, 2018, 09:28:35 AM
No it isn't. 'Emotional damage' makes people afraid to leave their homes, it makes them self harm, it makes them ashamed to come out or tp otherwise be themselves. It's not vague at all.

I agree.
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SteveH

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2018, 09:37:01 AM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 24, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
Speech should only be free to a point, NOT if it causes harm. You didn't answer my question, do you think it is acceptable to have a notice up stating, 'No blacks here'?
I agree that there are, and should be, limits to freedom of speech - but not many. Yes, I do think such notices should be illegsl.
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 11:37:48 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 24, 2018, 09:37:01 AM
I agree that there are, and should be, limits to freedom of speech - but not many. Yes, I do think such notices should be illegsl.


At least we agree on something.


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SteveH

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 12:05:43 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on October 24, 2018, 11:37:48 AM

At least we agree on something.
Even you can't be wrong all the time!
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 12:13:35 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on October 24, 2018, 12:05:43 PM
Even you can't be wrong all the time!

Now! Now! :P ;D
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jeremyp

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 01:13:29 PM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on October 24, 2018, 09:28:35 AM
No it isn't. 'Emotional damage' makes people afraid to leave their homes, it makes them self harm, it makes them ashamed to come out or tp otherwise be themselves. It's not vague at all.
People saying "God does not exist" probably causes emotional damage to some Christians. Should I be banned from saying it?

Steve H is right. The concept of emotional damage is too vague to be able to frame good law around it.
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Spud

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2018, 08:48:52 AM »
I thought blasphemy was actually taking the name of YHWH thy God in vain, implying that I can only do it if I profess to believe in God? That's between me and God. I don't see why accidentally causing offence to someone who believes should be a crime. It isn't very nice to do it deliberately.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:50:53 AM by Spud »
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Enki

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2018, 10:35:03 AM »
Quote from: Spud on October 25, 2018, 08:48:52 AM
I thought blasphemy was actually taking the name of YHWH thy God in vain, implying that I can only do it if I profess to believe in God? That's between me and God. I don't see why accidentally causing offence to someone who believes should be a crime. It isn't very nice to do it deliberately.

I think that is a very naive view, Spud, and certainly one which doesn't fit with the various blasphemy laws in many countries.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2018, 10:43:08 AM »
Quote from: jeremyp on October 24, 2018, 01:13:29 PM
People saying "God does not exist" probably causes emotional damage to some Christians. Should I be banned from saying it?

Steve H is right. The concept of emotional damage is too vague to be able to frame good law around it.

I'm not aware of offended Christians getting the shit kicked out of them in the street. I am aware of it happening to gay and trans people to the point where they feel safer at home and where they feel so unaccepted that they self harm.
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jeremyp

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2018, 02:16:47 PM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on October 25, 2018, 10:43:08 AM
I'm not aware of offended Christians getting the shit kicked out of them in the street.
So it's not emotional damage unless you are concerned about getting the shit kicked out of you in the street then? Can you frame a legal definition that covers that but not the kind of emotional damage that Christians claim?
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jeremyp

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2018, 02:24:19 PM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on October 24, 2018, 09:26:32 AM
I think the problem is that hate speech does incite violence in those who read it.
John Lennon once said "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus". That incited Mark Chapman to violence. Should John Lennon's speech have been banned as hate speech?

On the other hand, I've read some hate speech and never been incited to hurt anybody by it.

Who decides what hate speech is?
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Roses

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Re: Blasphemy
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 11:46:39 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/27/ireland-votes-to-oust-blasphemy-ban-from-constitution

Ireland has voted overwhelmingly to get rid of this blasphemy silliness, and not before time.
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