Do Hexes work?

[Sebastian Toe]

That's about the same length of time an atheist comedian feels funny.

That would be 5 minutes and 3 seconds longer than you then!

[Nearly Sane]

What a load of half-witted, superstitious gonads.

It’s really no different from, say, the Eucharist in that sense. And I say that with respect, as someone who has been on your side of the fence as it were. An atheist may call out witchcraft, but Christianity has no more substance to it.

My take is that for the individual their beliefs can be metaphors, and attempts to explain their life experience. On that level, there seems little to call out about such things. The link in the original post on the Kavanaugh thread does to me seem a bit '2 bald people fighting over a comb' but that's because the beliefs are phrased in a way that seems to not be metaphor but some claim of truth beyond the idea of metaphor and individual experience. That said, I can see the hex as more a psychological support group, something like mass which could be metaphoric.

I've asked on both here and Vlad's tribute Christian board thread about what it means for  hexes/prayers to 'work'. That too seems likely to me something an individual answers, and the answer could well be something that only relates to subjective feelings.

[Rhiannon]

  My take is that for the individual their beliefs can be metaphors, and attempts to explain their life experience. On that level, there seems little to call out about such things. The link in the original post on the Kavanaugh thread does to me seem a bit '2 bald people fighting over a comb' but that's because the beliefs are phrased in a way that seems to not be metaphor but some claim of truth beyond the idea of metaphor and individual experience. That said, I can see the hex as more a psychological support group, something like mass which could be metaphoric.

I've asked on both here and Vlad's tribute Christian board thread about what it means for  hexes/prayers to 'work'. That too seems likely to me something an individual answers, and the answer could well be something that only relates to subjective feelings.

I'm not disagreeing with you - for me a part of my path is very much about the messages behind myths and legends for example. But it is a bit rich for the follower of one faith to call out another on 'superstition'. The Eucharist, for example, has no meaning unless it is consecrated, and that has to be done for a priest, who is consecrated in a ceremony as a mediator between God and humanity. However much you may believe the Eucharist to be symbolic, in churches where it is a sacrament it needs ritual to set it apart, to consecrate it, by a person who has special powers conferred on them. What is that other than superstition and magic? And that is without the other nuts-and-bolts required for belief - the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection. Do away with the fundamentals of Christian belief and you've done away with being a Christian. I know, I tried it. In the end up with a meaningless fudge, however much you read Borg and Spong.

[Nearly Sane]

I'm not disagreeing with you - for me a part of my path is very much about the messages behind myths and legends for example. But it is a bit rich for the follower of one faith to call out another on 'superstition'. The Eucharist, for example, has no meaning unless it is consecrated, and that has to be done for a priest, who is consecrated in a ceremony as a mediator between God and humanity. However much you may believe the Eucharist to be symbolic, in churches where it is a sacrament it needs ritual to set it apart, to consecrate it, by a person who has special powers conferred on them. What is that other than superstition and magic? And that is without the other nuts-and-bolts required for belief - the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection. Do away with the fundamentals of Christian belief and you've done away with being a Christian. I know, I tried it. In the end up with a meaningless fudge, however much you read Borg and Spong.

It doesn't much bother me whether someone says that they are a Christian, a pagan, or a Whovian, and I find their definition in complete contrast to any others I've met, or they are said to be No True Whovian by others who follow in the path of the 13 faced god. I'm more interested in what individuals say they believe, and how they act. Ritual can be comforting for some, but essentially meaningless to them beyond the ritual itself. It's a matter of pattern and belonging. That's why my response to a claim of something  working' seems to me to need the definition by the individual of what they mean by working.

[Roses]

It doesn't much bother me whether someone says that they are a Christian, a pagan, or a Whovian, and I find their definition in complete contrast to any others I've met, or they are said to be No True Whovian by others who follow in the path of the 13 faced god. I'm more interested in what individuals say they believe, and how they act. Ritual can be comforting for some, but essentially meaningless to them beyond the ritual itself. It's a matter of pattern and belonging. That's why my response to a claim of something  working' seems to me to need the definition by the individual of what they mean by working.

I have never come across the word, 'Whovian', before, I had to look it up.

I agree with you that when someone claims something works, as in the case of a hex, they need to ellucidate.

[Nearly Sane]

I have never come across the word, 'Whovian', before, I had to look it up.

I agree with you that when someone claims something works, as in the case of a hex, they need to ellucidate.

It was inspired by the thread here

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=16265.0

And my comment on it about it perhaps being more suited to the Faith Sharing Board. As someone who has seen some of the flame wars

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlameWar

on Doctor Who, it often seems like a religion so I used it as an example.

[Roses]

It was inspired by the thread here

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=16265.0

And my comment on it about it perhaps being more suited to the Faith Sharing Board. As someone who has seen some of the flame wars

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlameWar

on Doctor Who, it often seems like a religion so I used it as an example.

I gave up watching Dr Who years ago, none of the Drs in recent years have been as good as the early ones, imo.

Religion and politics bring out the worst in people, especially if one has had bad experiences, especially of religion.

[Rhiannon]

It doesn't much bother me whether someone says that they are a Christian, a pagan, or a Whovian, and I find their definition in complete contrast to any others I've met, or they are said to be No True Whovian by others who follow in the path of the 13 faced god. I'm more interested in what individuals say they believe, and how they act. Ritual can be comforting for some, but essentially meaningless to them beyond the ritual itself. It's a matter of pattern and belonging. That's why my response to a claim of something  working' seems to me to need the definition by the individual of what they mean by working.

And I won't disagree with any of that. I just find it weird when Christians point the finger and laugh at 'superstition' when that's what any faith in the supernatural is, religious or otherwise.

[Nearly Sane]

And I won't disagree with any of that. I just find it weird when Christians point the finger and laugh at 'superstition' when that's what any faith in the supernatural is, religious or otherwise.

It's  amazing not every discussion has to be about disagreement! We must be doing something wrong.


I do wonder if belief in the supernatural is that widespread, or indeed if people who might appear to believe in what is normally seen actually see it as that. Sriram, who I hope is well, doesn't see any difference, and I suspect that is a fairly common vieaw.

[Rhiannon]

It's  amazing not every discussion has to be about disagreement! We must be doing something wrong.


I do wonder if belief in the supernatural is that widespread, or indeed if people who might appear to believe in what is normally seen actually see it as that. Sriram, who I hope is well, doesn't see any difference, and I suspect that is a fairly common vieaw.

I think belief in the supernatural is huge - many people believe in ghosts and psychics and the like. You'll find more magazines featuring Tarot and witchcraft on the shelves of WH Smith and Tesco than you will Christianity. But people with religious belief seem to think that belongs in a different category. Reason? Fact?

[Nearly Sane]

I think belief in the supernatural is huge - many people believe in ghosts and psychics and the like. You'll find more magazines featuring Tarot and witchcraft on the shelves of WH Smith and Tesco than you will Christianity. But people with religious belief seem to think that belongs in a different category. Reason? Fact?

Don't disagree but I don't think that everyone sees a clear and easy difference between natural/supernatural. It's not even clear to me what supernatural means and a lot of it just seems to 'Really amazpeopke when people talk about it. I think it's impossible to generalise at all about what people with religious belief think about it. There are a multitude of views on her amongst our tiny cross section.

[Roses]

As I have stated many times, I have had many experiences, which appeared to be supernatural when I experienced them, as a child in my family home, and in our previous property, which we sold in 2012. Funnily enough I have never had a religious experience even when I was a Christian. I find that rather strange as religion was a big part of my childhood. I am of the opinion there is a natural explanation for all these sort of experiences, which science will explain eventually, even if it can't do so now.

[SteveH]

As I have stated many times,

"Many, many times..." Dame Beatrice Clissold.

[Rhiannon]

What about the Eucharist, Steve? Do you believe that is a sacrament that needs to be consecrated?

[SteveH]

What about the Eucharist, Steve? Do you believe that is a sacrament that needs to be consecrated?

No. I think any group of Christians can celebrate it anywhere.

[Rhiannon]

No. I think any group of Christians can celebrate it anywhere.

That’s interesting. I thought the same back in the day. Not a popular POV I found. But I’m assuming you respect the views of those who do see it as a sacrament? Witchcraft’s no different. It really isn’t.

[jeremyp]

That’s interesting. I thought the same back in the day. Not a popular POV I found. But I’m assuming you respect the views of those who do see it as a sacrament? Witchcraft’s no different. It really isn’t.

The Eucharist was first documented by St Paul and in the synoptic gospels. There was no poncey consecration nonsense. They simple took the bread and wine as they had it and performed a simple ceremony with it. It could be argued that the later trappings were added on by the church to try to create a monopoly for its priests.

I think the sacramental stuff might be considered to be similar to a hex, but Christians don't like it when you say that because they like to think their religion is better than everybody else's.

[Rhiannon]

The Eucharist was first documented by St Paul and in the synoptic gospels. There was no poncey consecration nonsense. They simple took the bread and wine as they had it and performed a simple ceremony with it. It could be argued that the later trappings were added on by the church to try to create a monopoly for its priests.

I think the sacramental stuff might be considered to be similar to a hex, but Christians don't like it when you say that because they like to think their religion is better than everybody else's.

Yes, I know, which is why I took the same position that Steve does now when I was a Christian. But then the church ended up with the Apostolic Succession. The Eucharist is effectively a magic ritual.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It’s really no different from, say, the Eucharist in that sense. And I say that with respect, as someone who has been on your side of the fence as it were. An atheist may call out witchcraft, but Christianity has no more substance to it.

So do you think there is substance in witchcraft and/or christianity?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It’s really no different from, say, the Eucharist in that sense. And I say that with respect, as someone who has been on your side of the fence as it were. An atheist may call out witchcraft, but Christianity has no more substance to it.

So...do you think there is substance to witchcraft and/ or christianity?