Brexit benefits we'll never see.

[Harrowby Hall]

Apologies - I hadn't spotted that I had mistyped. There should have been a "W" before "age".

So here is my intended contribution.


Perhaps what Vlad is suggesting is that in order to survive after we become the Venezuela of Europe we shall only survive by becoming a low wage economy.

If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again then our main competitor will be Bangladesh. Having a well-educated workforce would would damage our chances completely. Just think - we could buy shirts and shoes and woolly jumpers all bearing a label saying "Made in England".

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Apologies - I hadn't spotted that I had mistyped. There should have been a "W" before "age".

So here is my intended contribution.


Perhaps what Vlad is suggesting is that in order to survive after we become the Venezuela of Europe we shall only survive by becoming a low wage economy.

If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again then our main competitor will be Bangladesh. Having a well-educated workforce would would damage our chances completely. Just think - we could buy shirts and shoes and woolly jumpers all bearing a label saying "Made in England".

I'm afraid after Brexit there can only be the stone age and the only tourist dollars those brought by professional anthropologists.

[Harrowby Hall]

I think England stopped worrying about how students felt or coped being concerned more about league tables, exam factories and indulging principals and headteachers in their free market, business oriented fantasies.

I think that it as a Labour government which invented the academy concept - thereby allowing anyone sufficiently interested to be allowed to manage schools.  It was an early step towards industrialising  education. But I think that it was Kenneth Baker who first realised he could interfere with the internal management of  education - imposing a sort of bowdlerised "management by objectives" into education. One of the shortcomings of politicians in power is that when they do impose MbO they select objectives which are easy to measure rather than those which meaningful and informative.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think that it as a Labour government which invented the academy concept - thereby allowing anyone sufficiently interested to be allowed to manage schools.  It was an early step towards industrialising  education. But I think that it was Kenneth Baker who first realised he could interfere with the internal management of  education - imposing a sort of bowdlerised "management by objectives" into education. One of the shortcomings of politicians in power is that when they do impose MbO they select objectives which are easy to measure rather than those which meaningful and informative.

Yes, It was also The Conservatives who invented OFSTED to dictate how things would be taught and where the emphasies should lie. The goal of education then became meeting what was decided at some Office or awayday hotel and conference centre rather than the humanitarian emerging needs of the pupils and then it naturally evolved into a story about adults, knighthoods, takeovers, Heads started calling themselves Principals  and CEO's, I know of a local head who referred to classrooms as 'plant' and there was asset stripping golden handshakes etc.

[jeremyp]

If we really want to become a manufacturing nation again

What do you mean "again"? We are a manufacturing nation. We are currently ranked number seven in the World for industrial output.

We may drop a couple of places as a result of Brexit, of course.

[Harrowby Hall]

I mean "again" in the sense that Brexiteers use the word. In terms of a nostalgic dream of a time that we were totally self-sufficient. I would have thought that anyone reading  my post would immediately understand that.

I was clearly mistaken.

[jeremyp]

I mean "again" in the sense that Brexiteers use the word.

You mean in the sense of it being a distortion of the truth?

In terms of a nostalgic dream of a time that we were totally self-sufficient. I would have thought that anyone reading  my post would immediately understand that.

When was that? We weren't self sufficient at the time of the First World War, never mind the Second.

I was clearly mistaken.

I can only respond to the words as written.  It looked like you were claiming we are not a manufacturing nation. Whether it is you making the claim or just Brexiteers, it is a false claim, and in the case of the Brexiteers, one arrived at by believing a false narrative fed to them by the anti-EU media and liars such as Nigel Farage.

[Harrowby Hall]

jeremyp

I'm sorry that you did not perceive that I was being a little facetious. You must have lived in very sheltered circumstances if you have never heard someone say something like "we don't make anything any more". 

But you must also know, if you do consider the opinions expressed and attitudes displayed on this forum, that I am not a Brexiteer and have no sympathy with the Brexit philosophy. It is characteristic of English (not the language) discourse that understatement and contrary statement are often used to emphasise points in discussion - something which our American co-linguists occasionally complain about.

If you are indeed a literalist then you are missing out on a lot of fun.

[jeremyp]

I'm sorry that you did not perceive that I was being a little facetious. You must have lived in very sheltered circumstances if you have never heard someone say something like "we don't make anything any more". 

I hear it all the bloody time. That's why it winds me up so much.

I am not a Brexiteer and have no sympathy with the Brexit philosophy. It is characteristic of English (not the language)

The thing is I hear "we don't make things anymore" from all sorts of people, not just Brexiteers. It's a such common trope, so much part of received wisdom that one somebody says it, I assume they believe it to be true. In reality, British manufacturing has grown in real terms almost continuously since the war with a blip at the beginning of the Thatcher era and another one after the financial crash of 2008.

I'm sorry, but it is one of my buttons and you pushed it.