Religion has stepped on science's turf?

[BeRational]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

You are just posting nonsense.

Just admit that disease has nothing to do with sin and stop looking so foolish

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You are just posting nonsense.

Just admit that disease has nothing to do with sin and stop looking so foolish

See replies#157 and #192

Behaviour has consequences including harm
Science makes no moral judgment on behaviour
Scientistic atheists make no moral judgment on behaviour because everything is explained in terms of behaviour containing no moral judgment.

Is the word harm scientific?

[ProfessorDavey]

See replies#157 and #192

Behaviour has consequences including harm
Science makes no moral judgment on behaviour
Scientistic atheists make no moral judgment on behaviour because everything is explained in terms of behaviour containing no moral judgment.

Is the word harm scientific?

In what way have the victims of this disease sinned Vlad?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

In what way have the victims of this disease sinned Vlad?

They neednt.
They have been sinned against.

[ProfessorDavey]

They neednt.
They have been sinned against.

But you claimed that:

'Some disabilities are linked to individual sin or wrongdoing.'

So again I ask (and you have still failed to answer):

Please provide an example of this - i.e. where the disability (or illness/medical condition) is specifically caused by that individual sinning.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

But you claimed that:

'Some disabilities are linked to individual sin or wrongdoing.'

So again I ask (and you have still failed to answer):

Please provide an example of this - i.e. where the disability (or illness/medical condition) is specifically caused by that individual sinning.

Yes. Other peoples sin.

But since behaviour can also cause harm to self. Individual sin can lead to self disability.

[Gordon]

They neednt.
They have been sinned against.

Out of idle curiosity, Vlad, how would you define 'sin'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Out of idle curiosity, Vlad, how would you define 'sin'?

Wrongdoing, Gordon.

[SteveH]

Wrongdoing, Gordon.

Separation from God, Phyllis. Wrongdoing is the result of sin.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Separation from God, Phyllis. Wrongdoing is the result of sin.

Yes I can go with that
And wrongdoing is synonymous with sin thesaurus wise so there is sin and sin/ sins.

[ProfessorDavey]

Individual sin can lead to self disability.

Example please where a specific disability is caused by individual sin.

[Gordon]

Wrongdoing, Gordon.

What is the standard that determines 'wrongdoing'?

[jeremyp]

Not sure why you posted the link.
It does not show that thalidomide was a sin.

You are just renaming any tragic event as a sin which is dishonest.

Do you know that thalidomide is still used?

I think he's referring to the fact that thalidomide hadn't been tested to make sure it was safe for pregnant women to use. This is a sin apparently. So God punished the sinners by ensuring that a lot of babies (mostly unrelated to these particular sinners) were born with malformed limbs and many of whom died fairly quickly.

[jeremyp]

Separation from God, Phyllis. Wrongdoing is the result of sin.

So the speeding ticket I got last week was caused by me being an atheist?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So the speeding ticket I got last week was caused by me being an atheist?

Shocking ignorance of theology and shockingly flippant given the gravity of the subject.

I think you'll find that all sorts received similar speeding tickets.....unless you were speeding because you are an atheist of course

I take it you understand why they give speeding tickets out.

[ProfessorDavey]

Shocking ignorance of theology and shockingly flippant given the gravity of the subject.

I think you'll find that all sorts received similar speeding tickets.....unless you were speeding because you are an atheist of course

I take it you understand why they give speeding tickets out.

Still waiting for your example please where a specific disability is caused by individual sin.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think he's referring to the fact that thalidomide hadn't been tested to make sure it was safe for pregnant women to use. This is a sin apparently. So God punished the sinners by ensuring that a lot of babies (mostly unrelated to these particular sinners) were born with malformed limbs and many of whom died fairly quickly.

I think the sin was in harming others. What that means about or does to the perpetrator and any punishment of the perp is between God and the perpetrator and any punishment humanity seems fit to dispense.

[jeremyp]

Shocking ignorance of theology and shockingly flippant given the gravity of the subject.

Yes. It is a grave subject. I will get a fine and three points on my licence which has been otherwise clean for more than ten years.

I take it you understand why they give speeding tickets out.

I was under the impression that passing a speed camera whilst driving in excess of the speed limit was the cause, but, no, Steve H tells me it is because I am separated from God.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Still waiting for your example please where a specific disability is caused by individual sin.

Can you place your goalposts in a fixed place and secure them please.

[jeremyp]

I think the sin was in harming others. What that means about or does to the perpetrator and any punishment of the perp is between God and the perpetrator and any punishment humanity seems fit to dispense.

Don't forget that this is supposed to be an example of sin causing a disability. How were the scientists who got it wrong disabled as a result?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yes. It is a grave subject. I will get a fine and three points on my licence which has been otherwise clean for more than ten years.
I was under the impression that passing a speed camera whilst driving in excess of the speed limit was the cause, but, no, Steve H tells me it is because I am separated from God.

You'll have to take that up with Steve.

At the point of speeding you chose to ignore the health and safety of others which can cause harm and disability.You detached yourself from any grace or remnant of Gods will for yourself. Unless of course it was the lesser evil.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Don't forget that this is supposed to be an example of sin causing a disability. How were the scientists who got it wrong disabled as a result?

I have never argued what you are suggesting.

Bad luck old boy.

Since you ask though we know that one sin can lead to others and there are effects on a person with a conscience I.e. It causes them to seek atonement. Either that or they could blunt their consciences and debase what they are.

[ProfessorDavey]

Can you place your goalposts in a fixed place and secure them please.

I have asked the same question consistently in replies 173, 176, 185, 188, 195, 198, 254, 260, 265

That is nine time without an answer. So lets make it a round 10.

Please provide an example where a disability (or illness/medical condition) is specifically caused by that individual sinning.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I have asked the same question consistently in replies 173, 176, 185, 188, 195, 198, 254, 260, 265

You are to be congratulated on your stamina sir, but not your clarity of meaning.
What is it you think you want? Names? I think naming people is problematic because the examples I have given of sin causing injury are corporate mainly.

I think we can agree that if Jeremy's speeding had been egocentric against the interests of God and man and he had broken his neck, any resulting disability would have er, been the result.

There that was a free one without you promising not to move goalposts and go of at your usual tangent.

[ProfessorDavey]

I think we can agree that if Jeremy's speeding had been egocentric against the interests of God and man and he had broken his neck, any resulting disability would have er, been the result.

Nope - complete rubbish. His broken neck would have caused by him crashing the car, which might have occurred even if he weren't speeding and regardless of the reason why he was speeding. Alternatively he might not have crashed the car even though he was speeding (and being egocentric against the interests of God, in your words).

There is absolutely no justifiable claim that 'sin' caused his disability in this example.

And of course speeding is an entirely subjectively defined parameter - in other words, we as people, via the law define speed limits. It is hard to see how speeding, therefore, somehow fits the criteria for 'sin'.