Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-46368991

This case is more than shocking.  The law needs changing immediately, if a rapist is able to have access to the child he has spawned, in this case after raping a girl when she was 15!

[SteveH]

I agree, but hard cases make bad law. This is a shocking exception to the general rule, which is being investigated.
BTW, there is nothing "more than shocking". You probably mean "very shocking", but that is still shocking. That's what happens when you use cliches: you sometimes end up writing nonsense.

[Roses]

I agree, but hard cases make bad law. This is a shocking exception to the general rule, which is being investigated.
BTW, there is nothing "more than shocking". You probably mean "very shocking", but that is still shocking. That's what happens when you use cliches: you sometimes end up writing nonsense.

Oh for pity's sake Steve, you can't help having a go at me even when we are in general agreement, it is getting rather tedious. And no I shouldn't respond to your jibes.

[SteveH]

Oh for pity's sake Steve, you can't help having a go at me even when we are in general agreement, it is getting rather tedious. And no I shouldn't respond to your jibes.

You're right. Mea culpa. I was wrong about "more than": very shocking is more than shocking. I was thinking of that tiresome expression "beyond", as in "beyond shocking", "beyond tragic", etc.

[ad_orientem]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-46368991

This case is more than shocking.  The law needs changing immediately, if a rapist is able to have access to the child he has spawned, in this case after raping a girl when she was 15!

Agreed. It's just retraumatising the victim. Whoever thought it was a good idea should get the sack.

[Rhiannon]

Family courts specialise in retraumatising victims in cases where an abuser has parental responsibility. What happened to the mother is largely regarded as irrelevant. And because they are held in secret and victims can't speak out it goes largely unchallenged.

[Harrowby Hall]

Agreed. It's just retraumatising the victim. Whoever thought it was a good idea should get the sack.

Social workers employed by Rotherham Council apparently.

Presumably there is some kind of politically-correct view that both parents should always be engaged with their children. How someone whose only contact with the child's mother was an aggressive act intended to humiliate, insult, hurt and subjugate her can achieve such engagement is beyond me.

[Roses]

I think the victim of this rape was very brave to speak out, and bring this dangerous stupidity to public attention.

[Robbie]

I think the victim of this rape was very brave to speak out, and bring this dangerous stupidity to public attention.

Yes tho' I wouldn't want my child, if I went as far as having him or her, to know they were conceived from rape. Controversial view maybe but how I feel, not the mother's nor the child's fault of course.

Beyond awful imo but unfortunately does happen occasionally.

[Roses]

Yes tho' I wouldn't want my child, if I went as far as having him or her, to know they were conceived from rape. Controversial view maybe but how I feel, not the mother's nor the child's fault of course.

Beyond awful imo but unfortunately does happen occasionally.

What to tell a child in these circumstances must be extremely difficult. If a story is concocted and they later on discover the truth, which is quite likely, it could damage the mother's relationship with her offspring. Either way the situation is likely to be traumatic, which is why I suspect many women are likely to terminate a pregnancy, which is the result of being raped.

[Robbie]

Who could blame them? I wouldn't.

In the 'old days' women just gave their babies up for adoption, quite reasonable, not so easy now.

[Rhiannon]

Who could blame them? I wouldn't.

In the 'old days' women just gave their babies up for adoption, quite reasonable, not so easy now.

She has publicly said that she loves her son. Remember, she was groomed by this man over a long time and she has even spoken of having feelings of gratitude to him in the past because she has her son.

We are complicated creatures and I think it devalues this woman as a mother to say that it would have been more reasonable for her to give him up for adoption.

[SteveH]

Beyond awful

See my previous post.

[Rhiannon]

There was also a case in Wales recently where the children were victims of abuse and the father was still able try and dictate things like what schools they went to and where they lived from his prison cell because he had joint parental responsibility.

In these cases I wonder about the solicitors who will take the coin of such people.

[Roses]

There was also a case in Wales recently where the children were victims of abuse and the father was still able try and dictate things like what schools they went to and where they lived from his prison cell because he had joint parental responsibility.

In these cases I wonder about the solicitors who will take the coin of such people.

I remember that case which was well beyond shocking and awful.

[Robbie]

See my previous post.

I did.

She has publicly said that she loves her son. Remember, she was groomed by this man over a long time and she has even spoken of having feelings of gratitude to him in the past because she has her son.

We are complicated creatures and I think it devalues this woman as a mother to say that it would have been more reasonable for her to give him up for adoption.

Yes, people love their children regardless. None of us know what we might have done in same circumstances. We cannot judge them but I think most of us on here haven't had to.

My feeling is I would not have a child conceived in rape but it is not about me, didn't happen thankfully (could have), but people do and the child is born innocent. Better they never know. There are books written by women who have loved and brought up children born out of rape. Brave mothers but what effect does that have on the child? Especially children being publicised in that way. I don't know, being honest here.  Really don't know what I would have done. Some other posters on here may be have more to say. I do believe every child is born with a clean slate.

One important thing is not to blame and to have confidentiality.

[Roses]

I did.

Yes, people love their children regardless. None of us know what we might have done in same circumstances. We cannot judge them but I think most of us on here haven't had to.

My feeling is I would not have a child conceived in rape but it is not about me, didn't happen thankfully (could have), but people do and the child is born innocent. Better they never know. There are books written by women who have loved and brought up children born out of rape. Brave mothers but what effect does that have on the child? Especially children being publicised in that way. I don't know, being honest here.  Really don't know what I would have done. Some other posters on here may be have more to say. I do believe every child is born with a clean slate.

One important thing is not to blame and to have confidentiality.

But they don't stay children forever, it would be strange if they didn't ask questions about their parentage. They are likely to discover the truth, especially these days, thanks to the Internet. However painful, it is best to tell them the truth, in an age appropriate way, as soon as they start asking questions. 

[jeremyp]

In these cases I wonder about the solicitors who will take the coin of such people.

It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it. Everybody has a right to legal representation.

[SteveH]

But they don't stay children forever, it would be strange if they didn't ask questions about their parentage. They are likely to discover the truth, especially these days, thanks to the Internet. However painful, it is best to tell them the truth, in an age appropriate way, as soon as they start asking questions.

With the important proviso "in an age-appropriate way", maybe, but I think it's probably best just to say that their father left their mother and wasn't a nice man until they're adults. Still, a wise and thoughtful post from someone I often lock horns with - credit where it's due, and all that.

[Roses]

With the important proviso "in an age-appropriate way", maybe, but I think it's probably best just to say that their father left their mother and wasn't a nice man until they're adults. Still, a wise and thoughtful post from someone I often lock horns with - credit where it's due, and all that.

Thank you.

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46387043

Another shocking story.

[Rhiannon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46387043

Another shocking story.

This doesn't surprise me one single bit. Social workers take the line that a relationship with an abusive parent is better than no relationship. Note, thus isn't a male/female thing. The courts favour abusers of either gender.

[Rhiannon]

It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it. Everybody has a right to legal representation.

Except there are ethics around re-traumatising a rape victim in court, surely? I know my brief doesn't take on this work. The people that do are those who get a kick out of hurting abused people. From what I can gather.

[Rhiannon]

But they don't stay children forever, it would be strange if they didn't ask questions about their parentage. They are likely to discover the truth, especially these days, thanks to the Internet. However painful, it is best to tell them the truth, in an age appropriate way, as soon as they start asking questions.

I agree with this. It's possible to tell a child that their dad wasn't a nice person but that they aren't their dad and it says nothing about them. And that their mum chose to keep them because they are loved.

[jeremyp]

The courts favour abusers of either gender.

Not in the case Little Roses' most recent link describes:  "a court order now prevents the man from contacting them". Of course, it's a bit of an indictment that it ever had to come to court: he had child abuse images on his computer. It's also a bit of an indictment that, once it came to court, the mother "really had to fight". It should have been an open and shut case.