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Author Topic: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child  (Read 4344 times)

jeremyp

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2018, 08:52:59 AM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on November 29, 2018, 04:37:31 PM
Except there are ethics around re-traumatising a rape victim in court, surely?
I was merely making the point that everybody deserves access to legal representation and and therefore there must be some lawyers prepared to "take their coin".

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The people that do are those who get a kick out of hurting abused people

What do you do if you are accused of rape and you need a legal defence, if no lawyer is prepared to take your case?
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2018, 10:21:43 AM »
Quote from: jeremyp on November 30, 2018, 08:52:59 AM
I was merely making the point that everybody deserves access to legal representation and and therefore there must be some lawyers prepared to "take their coin".

What do you do if you are accused of rape and you need a legal defence, if no lawyer is prepared to take your case?

Defend yourself. Since legal aid has been cut from family proceedings most single mothers have to represent themselves in court. Even legal aid for abuse victims is strictly means tested. If they can be expected to do so given the incredibly high stakes then I don't see why a rapist shouldn't. But never fear, Jeremy, because there are plenty of lawyers prepared to drag a woman's reputation through the mud in every conceivable way in order to get their clients off the hook. Family lawyers prepared to do the work for free are thinner on the ground.
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SteveH

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2018, 10:26:04 AM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on November 30, 2018, 10:21:43 AM
Defend yourself. Since legal aid has been cut from family proceedings most single mothers have to represent themselves in court. Even legal aid for abuse victims is strictly means tested. If they can be expected to do so given the incredibly high stakes then I don't see why a rapist shouldn't. But never fear, Jeremy, because there are plenty of lawyers prepared to drag a woman's reputation through the mud in every conceivable way in order to get their clients off the hook. Family lawyers prepared to do the work for free are thinner on the ground.
It is not unknown for women to make false rape accusations, and men accused of it deserve proper legal defence. Your feminism-by-numbers is getting increasingly tiresome.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2018, 10:32:58 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on November 30, 2018, 10:26:04 AM
It is not unknown for women to make false rape accusations, and men accused of it deserve proper legal defence. Your feminism-by-numbers is getting increasingly tiresome.

Do you know how many false accusations are made? It's 4%. In a category of crime that is already woefully under reported.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/false-sexual-violence-assault-rape-allegations-truth-rare-international-day-for-the-elimination-of-a8077876.html

It isn't 'feminism by numbers' it is fucking anger at the way men take and take and take. I've been raped, and no I didn't report it, because what is the fucking point when people have the attitude that you do, I've been abused and you have the fucking cheek to patronise me when you know fuck all about what you are talking about. You are a stain on your faith.
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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2018, 10:47:15 AM »
Quote from: Steve H on November 30, 2018, 10:26:04 AM
It is not unknown for women to make false rape accusations, and men accused of it deserve proper legal defence. Your feminism-by-numbers is getting increasingly tiresome.

A very small number compared to the number of men who get away with molesting women. >:(
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2018, 11:08:02 AM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 30, 2018, 10:47:15 AM
A very small number compared to the number of men who get away with molesting women. >:(

Quite. You know what is ready sad? Just about every woman I know has her story - I think those of us that post on here have all shared something - and with my girls becoming young women I've realised that the best that I can hope for them is that the sexual assaults and abuse that they encounter won't be too bad, that they won't get lasting damage, that they can file it away with a shrug. Because it will happen. Just this week my eldest had to report sexual harassment at her school and tell the truth, I'm fearful that it will escalate. This is life if you are female.
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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2018, 11:54:21 AM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on November 30, 2018, 11:08:02 AM
Quite. You know what is ready sad? Just about every woman I know has her story - I think those of us that post on here have all shared something - and with my girls becoming young women I've realised that the best that I can hope for them is that the sexual assaults and abuse that they encounter won't be too bad, that they won't get lasting damage, that they can file it away with a shrug. Because it will happen. Just this week my eldest had to report sexual harassment at her school and tell the truth, I'm fearful that it will escalate. This is life if you are female.

No doubt someone will accuse me of being sexist, but I guess the number of men sexually harassed and assaulted by women is tiny in comparison.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2018, 12:04:36 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 30, 2018, 11:54:21 AM
No doubt someone will accuse me of being sexist, but I guess the number of men sexually harassed and assaulted by women is tiny in comparison.

I think men suffer from the toxic masculinity that makes then hurt each other. And I know that men are the victims of domestic abuse just as much as women are, although they are far less likely to be killed by a partner. But is isn't feminist bullshitterry to point out that sexual harassment and assault and men thinking that they can say and take what they want when it comes to women' bodies is a fact of life. It's just the truth.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2018, 01:44:25 PM »
What is toxic masculity? Genuine question. Never heard the term before.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 01:49:01 PM by ad_orientem »
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SteveH

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2018, 01:47:01 PM »
The fact remains that women do sometimes make false accusations of rape, and men accused of it are as entitled to the presumption of innocence as anyone else. If an accused man pleads not guilty and puts his accuser through the ordeal of defending her accusation in court, and is eventually found guilty, his not-guilty plea and his insistence on the woman being questioned will be taken into account when he is sentenced, and his jail term will be significantly longer than it would have been if he'd pleaded guilty and spared her some of the ordeal. The presumption of innocence is a vital part of a fair legal system, and should not be undermined.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2018, 01:47:51 PM »
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SteveH

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2018, 01:48:21 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 30, 2018, 11:54:21 AM
No doubt someone will accuse me of being sexist, but I guess the number of men sexually harassed and assaulted by women is tiny in comparison.
I'm sure you're right, but what's that to the purpose?
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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2018, 01:50:53 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on November 30, 2018, 01:48:21 PM
I'm sure you're right, but what's that to the purpose?

Most women will have experienced some form of sexual harassment, if not worse.
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SteveH

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2018, 01:52:59 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 30, 2018, 01:50:53 PM
Most women will have experienced some form of sexual harassment, if not worse.
and...? I don't suppose anyone on this board will argue, but it's not really relevant to questions about the legal treatment of rapists and their victims.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2018, 01:53:44 PM »
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2018, 01:54:53 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on November 30, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
The fact remains that women do sometimes make false accusations of rape, and men accused of it are as entitled to the presumption of innocence as anyone else. If an accused man pleads not guilty and puts his accuser through the ordeal of defending her accusation in court, and is eventually found guilty, his not-guilty plea and his insistence on the woman being questioned will be taken into account when he is sentenced, and his jail term will be significantly longer than it would have been if he'd pleaded guilty and spared her some of the ordeal. The presumption of innocence is a vital part of a fair legal system, and should not be undermined.

You know that rape victims aren't assumed to be innocent? That she 'led him on', has freely has sex before, was drunk, wore certain underwear...

Nobody is saying that there should be an end to a presumption of innocence. Shame that rape victims don't get that. Shame that abuse victims don't get a fair hearing in the family court and have to represent themselves.

Shame that 85% of rapes never get reported. Shame that every three days a woman is murdered by her partner or ex partner. Shame that over a hundred kids a year are murdered by their fathers as a form of abuse of the mother.

Feminism by numbers. Steve? What's the fucking point.

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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2018, 01:58:42 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on November 30, 2018, 01:52:59 PM
and...? I don't suppose anyone on this board will argue, but it's not really relevant to questions about the legal treatment of rapists and their victims.


Well I think it is.
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SteveH

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2018, 02:03:47 PM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on November 30, 2018, 01:54:53 PM
You know that rape victims aren't assumed to be innocent? That she 'led him on', has freely has sex before, was drunk, wore certain underwear...

Nobody is saying that there should be an end to a presumption of innocence. Shame that rape victims don't get that. Shame that abuse victims don't get a fair hearing in the family court and have to represent themselves.

Shame that 85% of rapes never get reported. Shame that every three days a woman is murdered by her partner or ex partner. Shame that over a hundred kids a year are murdered by their fathers as a form of abuse of the mother.

Feminism by numbers. Steve? What's the fucking point.
Unfortunately, the obvious defence in a rape case is that the woman consented, so it's hard to see how that can be avoided, if the accused is to defend himself properly. I repeat that if the defendant pleads not guilty and puts his victim through the ordeal of cross-questioning, and is eventually found guilty, he gets a significantly more severe sentence than he would have done if he'd pleaded guilty in the first place, and quite right too.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2018, 02:15:35 PM »
Quote from: Steve H on November 30, 2018, 02:03:47 PM
Unfortunately, the obvious defence in a rape case is that the woman consented, so it's hard to see how that can be avoided, if the accused is to defend himself properly. I repeat that if the defendant pleads not guilty and puts his victim through the ordeal of cross-questioning, and is eventually found guilty, he gets a significantly more severe sentence than he would have done if he'd pleaded guilty in the first place, and quite right too.

'Consent' isn't signalled by her previous sexual history, or whatever she was wearing, and if she was drunk then the likelihood is that she didn't consent. Actually what the defence does in these cases is insinuate that she was asking for it and therefore is culpable just because of where she was, at what time, or for how she was dressed or what her past is. I have had a number of men that I have spoken to tell me quite clearly that if a woman dresses a certain way and then gets raped she only has herself to blame. Another actually said to me that he doesn't believe that rapes happen that often because it's impossible to penetrate a woman that is kicking and screaming. And these aren't nasty sex offenders, just ordinary blokes who don't have the first clue. But these are the people who make up juries and a re-victimised and re-traumatised victim may very well not see justice. I wouldn't advise any woman to report a rape, certainly not where they know their attacker. It is highly unlikely that you will get justice and it isn't worth the trauma.
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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2018, 02:28:32 PM »
I think women should report being raped, not to do so is going to encourage the rapist to continue to abuse them and others.
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2018, 02:45:39 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 30, 2018, 02:28:32 PM
I think women should report being raped, not to do so is going to encourage the rapist to continue to abuse them and others.

That's callous, untrue and unfair.
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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2018, 02:53:06 PM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on November 30, 2018, 02:45:39 PM
That's callous, untrue and unfair.

Why is that untrue?
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Sassy

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2018, 02:58:50 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 28, 2018, 02:02:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-46368991

This case is more than shocking.  :o The law needs changing immediately, if a rapist is able to have access to the child he has spawned, in this case after raping a girl when she was 15! >:(

How does a child molester become a good advocate for parenting a child born out of his criminal acts and depraved way of life.

SORRY is not enough nor re-addressing the actions already taken.,  A child who is conceived through rape should be spared the knowledge of who the father was by not allowing them to be put on birth certificates and allowing no knowledge to kept about him that a child could ever find.  In fact a motion should be carried in Government that the law is changed so that man cannot access information on the child and vice versa and a life long injunction stopping him contacting the child or coming into his presence in childhood. As an adult the child is free to choose. Adult I mean 25 years minimum
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Rhiannon

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2018, 02:59:08 PM »
Quote from: Littleroses on November 30, 2018, 02:53:06 PM
Why is that untrue?

This is why. Even if you report a rape the odds are that the rapist will get away with it. It deters nothing.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/only-one-rape-every-14-11323783
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Roses

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Re: Rapist encouraged to have access to his victim's child
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2018, 03:03:25 PM »
Quote from: Rhiannon on November 30, 2018, 02:59:08 PM
This is why. Even if you report a rape the odds are that the rapist will get away with it. It deters nothing.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/only-one-rape-every-14-11323783


Even if that is true it should still be reported, imo.
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