About the Charismatic gifts and their exercise.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yeh right. You do seem to have am overactive imagination if your posts are an indication of your mindset.

Actually I put the initial potted history of the Charisms down to counteract the impression that the healing commision of the church was just charismatic.I notice there was no comeback by those like yourself on that.I take it then that that ignorance has been put straight.

[Anchorman]

That's exactly the sort of bollocks that charismatics come up with to explain away the lack of results from their prayers.

Why is it 'bolocks'?
As somerone registered blind and suffering from MS, I consider spiritual healing - real wholeness - more important than physical.

[ekim]

I must say I found this entry on the whole subject of glossolalia(from the Skeptics Dictionary)  to be quite fascinating. I've never really thought about it much before. One of the interesting conclusions suggested in this article is the difference between this and meditation. There seems to be some evidence that glossolalia is linked to a decrease in frontal lobe function, and increased activity in the parietal brain region, with the suggestion that for those who practise it, control is loosened  whilst intense personal experience is strengthened. With meditation, on the other hand, it is suggested that the the opposite occurs, pointing to the idea of focus and control being strengthened whilst sensory activity was reduced.

http://skepdic.com/glossol.html

Sounds like an explanation for the two words ....  glossolalia ... to speak unintelligibly and glossolego to speak with intelligence.  It's strange that Jesus chose meditation and some followers chose glossolalia.  I suppose that's what happens when you turn too much water into wine.

[Roses]

Sounds like an explanation for the two words ....  glossolalia ... to speak unintelligibly and glossolego to speak with intelligence.  It's strange that Jesus chose meditation and some followers chose glossolalia.  I suppose that's what happens when you turn too much water into wine.

Alcohol did seem to feature rather prominently in the life of Jesus.

[jeremyp]

Because they have.
Niot very often,

Yes, because, if it happened often enough not to be explainable by chance, that would be evidence of God and we all know that without Faith, God is nothing.

[jeremyp]

Alcohol did seem to feature rather prominently in the life of Jesus.

Alcohol featured prominently in everybody’s life back then, mainly because it was too dangerous to drink the water.

[Roses]

Alcohol featured prominently in everybody’s life back then, mainly because it was too dangerous to drink the water.

Alcohol in quantity can muddle the brain, that could explain some of the less than credible claims in the Bible .

[Anchorman]

Alcohol in quantity can muddle the brain, that could explain some of the less than credible claims in the Bible .

Youhave evidence that those who either witnessed those claims, orwrote of them, consumed too much alcohol?
I mean, you wouldn't make such an assertion without evidence, would you?
Er....would you?

[Roses]

Youhave evidence that those who either witnessed those claims, orwrote of them, consumed too much alcohol?
I mean, you wouldn't make such an assertion without evidence, would you?
Er....would you?

I don't have the evidence, as they all pegged out so long ago. However, as many of the claims are as credible as one claiming fairies exist, they have to be taken with a large pinch of salt, until there is verifiable evidence to substantiate them.

[SteveH]

Why is it 'bolocks'?
As somerone registered blind and suffering from MS, I consider spiritual healing - real wholeness - more important than physical.

Well, more fool you.

[Anchorman]

Well, more fool you.

   




Yep.
As Paul put it, "a fool for Christ's sake"

[Alan Burns]

That's exactly the sort of bollocks that charismatics come up with to explain away the lack of results from their prayers.

You seem to have had a bad experience with the charismatics.  All religious groups seem to get infiltrated by some people who are there for the wrong reasons.  I have come across some who are obviously on their own ego trip, and some who quite frankly seem to be mentally disturbed.  But in my experience within the charismatic movement of the Catholic Church I have met hundreds of genuine people whose faith has been deeply enriched.  I am one of them.  This is an extract from an earlier post I made on this forum:

Up until my mid twenties, I thought I knew all about God.  I went to church, attended the sacraments, said my prayers.  I may have known about God, but God brought me into a situation in which I came to know Him, not just know about Him.

My experience was triggered by a priest inviting me to "Life in the Spirit" seminars which he said would change your life.  But I did not want my life to be changed - I was quite happy with a good circle of friends, a good job, my own house and a brand new silver TR7 with a soft top and what I felt to be strong faith.  But I felt curious and was drawn to these seminars (despite misgivings about leaving my TR7 in a rough council estate during dark November evenings).  It really was a life changing experience.  I invited the Holy Spirit into my life and discovered a God who loved me.  Reading scriptures became a new experience as deeper and deeper meanings were revealed.  Music became a powerful prayer, and when I volunteered to play guitar I was teamed up with my future wife!  Since then I have had a wonderful prayer partner in my lovely wife with whom I could share this new dimension to my faith.

[Roses]

   




Yep.
As Paul put it, "a fool for Christ's sake"

That chap Paul said some very stupid things!

[SteveH]

You seem to have had a bad experience with the charismatics.  All religious groups seem to get infiltrated by some people who are there for the wrong reasons.  I have come across some who are obviously on their own ego trip, and some who quite frankly seem to be mentally disturbed.  But in my experience within the charismatic movement of the Catholic Church I have met hundreds of genuine people whose faith has been deeply enriched.  I am one of them. 

And this "you seem to have had a bad experience..." crap is another typical load of Charismatic balls, which they trot out to explain away criticism. My church was an anglican one, not all that extreme as charismatic churches go, and it did not contain any control-freaks.

[Dicky Underpants]

Well, more fool you.

Here's Anchorman arguing for the importance of the 'spirit' and you denigrating him. Yet elsewhere you're opposing LR and appearing to suggest that there is evidence for Christ's resurrection, quoting the witness of St Paul (doesn't Paul say that "the spirit helps us in our weakness"?)
I don't believe any of this, but I know where I stand. I wish you'd make up your bloody mind.


P.S.

Just checked the reference from Romans 8. Verses 5&6 seem to indicate that Anchorman's approach is at least in accordance with Paul's ideas:
[5] For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
[6] To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

[SteveH]

Here's Anchorman arguing for the importance of the 'spirit' and you denigrating him. Yet elsewhere you're opposing LR and appearing to suggest that there is evidence for Christ's resurrection, quoting the witness of St Paul (doesn't Paul say that "the spirit helps us in our weakness"?)
I don't believe any of this, but I know where I stand. I wish you'd make up your bloody mind.

I'm agnostic about the (literal, physical) resurrection of Christ. I was just reacting against LR's usual infuriatingly tiresome and very arrogant way of airily dismissing beliefs with her usual parrot-squawk of "There is no evidence for... imo", with not a shred of logical argument.

[Roses]

I'm agnostic about the (literal, physical) resurrection of Christ. I was just reacting against LR's usual infuriatingly tiresome and very arrogant way of airily dismissing beliefs with her usual parrot-squawk of "There is no evidence for... imo", with not a shred of logical argument.

There is no verifiable evidence any god exists, that is FACT, whether you like it or not.

[SteveH]

There is no verifiable evidence any god exists, that is FACT, whether you like it or not.

There are many arguments for God which convince people far more intelligent and better-educated than either of us, so you are obviously wrong. whether YOU like it or not.

[Sebastian Toe]

There are many arguments for God which convince people far more intelligent and better-educated than either of us, so you are obviously wrong. whether YOU like it or not.

.....FACT!!!

[Roses]

There are many arguments for God which convince people far more intelligent and better-educated than either of us, so you are obviously wrong. whether YOU like it or not.

There are arguments for the existence of  god, I have never denied that. However, until there is evidence supporting those arguments, which as yet there isn't, its existence has to be in doubt.

[jeremyp]

There are many arguments for God which convince people far more intelligent and better-educated than either of us

What are they?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Steve H,

There are many arguments for God which convince people far more intelligent and better-educated than either of us, so you are obviously wrong. whether YOU like it or not.

Leaving aside for now the rather clunky attempt at an argument from authority (no matter how intelligent these people may be, the arguments themselves stand or fall on their merits) that doesn’t rebut what Floo said, which was that “There is no verifiable evidence any god exist”.

[SteveH]

Steve H,

Leaving aside for now the rather clunky attempt at an argument from authority (no matter how intelligent these people may be, the arguments themselves stand or fall on their merits) that doesn’t rebut what Floo said, which was that “There is no verifiable evidence any god exist”.

You're right, of course, but I was just yet again pissed off with her dim-witted and arrogant flat statement with no argument to support it.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Steve H,

You're right, of course, but I was just yet again pissed off with her dim-witted and arrogant flat statement with no argument to support it.

Fair enough my friend. Maybe she should sign up for the clergy or something? 

[Roses]

You're right, of course, but I was just yet again pissed off with her dim-witted and arrogant flat statement with no argument to support it.

My statement is a fact, even if you don't regard it as such.