How unlikely are God and/or other "supernatural" things?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Show reasoning and statistical working out.......thank you.

[Stranger]

How unlikely are God and/or other "supernatural" things?

Show reasoning and statistical working out.......thank you.

As an exercise, why not take some myth you don't believe in, say vampires, leprechauns , or a god or two you don't believe in, then tell us how unlikely you think it is. Remember to show your reasoning and statistical working out.

[Nearly Sane]

Nonsensical question - probability is a methodological naturalistic concept.

[Roses]

As an exercise, why not take some myth you don't believe in, say vampires, leprechauns , or a god or two you don't believe in, then tell us how unlikely you think it is. Remember to show your reasoning and statistical working out.

Don't ask for the impossible.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Nonsensical question - probability is a methodological naturalistic concept.

Would you agree then that it is a nonsensical statement to say God is very unlikely?
If so when was the last time you responded to it being made on this forum?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Don't ask for the impossible.

You are one of those who said God was unlikely.

[Nearly Sane]

Would you agree then that it is a nonsensical statement to say God is very unlikely?
If so when was the last time you responded to it being made on this forum?

Yep. Can't remember but have done so frequently.


Here is an example of me writing about why saying supernatural events are unlikely isn't valid

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=15053.msg724625#msg724625

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As an exercise, why not take some myth you don't believe in, say vampires, leprechauns , or a god or two you don't believe in, then tell us how unlikely you think it is. Remember to show your reasoning and statistical working out.

Vampires and Leprechauns have apparently a physical phase which carries therefore a probability and have not yet been spotted scientifically....therefore probability low.
God checker sounds like this kind of web site. Full of atheists with "ball all" theological skill or expertise to which one can usually throw in a "fail" in philosophy.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Yep. Can't remember but have done so frequently.


Here is an example of me writing about why saying supernatural events are unlikely isn't valid

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=15053.msg724625#msg724625

You seemed strangely silent when Floo recently said it and whenI questioned Hillside on it this morning.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As an exercise, why not take some myth you don't believe in, say vampires, leprechauns , or a god or two you don't believe in, then tell us how unlikely you think it is. Remember to show your reasoning and statistical working out.

As an exercise for you would you say that being uncreated or maybe just popping into existence were observable and natural?
Might you not say that they were attributes of a God you don't believe in because of being supernatural?

[Nearly Sane]

You seemed strangely silent when Floo recently said it and whenI questioned Hillside on it this morning.

And? I've provided you with an example of me doing it. That I don't pick up everyone every time they might say it is irrelevant. Even if I had never done so, it doesn't change the point.

[Stranger]

Vampires and Leprechauns have apparently a physical phase which carries therefore a probability and have not yet been spotted scientifically....therefore probability low.

Same would apply to any gods that are supposed to do anything in the physical world.

God checker sounds like this kind of web site. Full of atheists with "ball all" theological skill or expertise to which one can usually throw in a "fail" in philosophy.

What has that got to do with anything? Are you denying that there are multiple gods that humans believe in, or have believed in, and that you don't believe in most of them? So why do you think them unlikely?

[Stranger]

As an exercise for you would you say that being uncreated or maybe just popping into existence were observable and natural?

Popping into existence is natural and happens all the time. You'll have to be more specific about "uncreated". Do you mean not deliberately created by an intelligent being? If so, most things seem uncreated.

Might you not say that they were attributes of a God you don't believe in because of being supernatural?

No.

[Roses]

Would you agree then that it is a nonsensical statement to say God is very unlikely?
If so when was the last time you responded to it being made on this forum?

Whilst it is possible a god could just possibly exist, I think the existence of the Biblical god is unlikely as it seems to have all the worst of human characteristics, and therefore is in all probability a human construction.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Same would apply to any gods that are supposed to do anything in the physical world.

Not really, you have to contend with the physicality of vampires and Leprechauns and the non physicality of God.

In other words With your examples you have the physical interacting with the physical. Not so in the case of God.

[Sebastian Toe]

Not really, you have to contend with the physicality of vampires and Leprechauns and the non physicality of God.

In other words With your examples you have the physical interacting with the physical. Not so in the case of God.

Jesus was not physical?

[Nearly Sane]

Whilst it is possible a god could just possibly exist, I think the existence of the Biblical god is unlikely as it seems to have all the worst of human characteristics, and therefore is in all probability a human construction.

Just to keep Vlad happy, the use here of unlikely is meaningless, as it's a methodologically naturalistic concept.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Popping into existence is natural and happens all the time. You'll have to be more specific about "uncreated". Do you mean not deliberately created by an intelligent being? If so, most things seem uncreated.

No.

When last I checked only particles could do that.......not universes.
Secondly Hume famously pointed out that we can envisage a stone popping out of nowhere and I suppose he is right. The problem is he could not guarantee that it didn't come from somewhere else....and this, I understand is also a problem for anything you are suggesting that pops out of nothing.

So we have covered one possible way of being created without mentioning God, let's try the other way and propose that there is never a time when the universe hasn't been in some shape or form. No mention of God there either.

And yet we have two things that are supernatural. Appearance of everything out of nothing or the eternal.

And still no mention of God.

And then to cap it all, if you accept either or both of these capabilities. You cannot logically withhold them from other entities.......thus making the likelihood of the supernatural vanishly close to a probability of 1.

Having demolished naturalism, Vlad went and made himself a cup of tea.....

Big smiley everyone!

[SteveH]

Whilst it is possible a god could just possibly exist, I think the existence of the Biblical god is unlikely as it seems to have all the worst of human characteristics, and therefore is in all probability a human construction.

"What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

"And God spake all these words, saying,
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

"Love God, and your neighbour as yourself"

 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Jesus was not physical?

Yes. Are you saying Jesus didn't exist?

[Roses]

"What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

"And God spake all these words, saying,
I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's."

"Love God, and your neighbour as yourself"

 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Which says nothing good about that entity.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Seb,

Jesus was not physical?

Ouch!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Seb,

Ouch!

Ouch?
Are you comparing the probability of Jesus existing with that of Leprechauns?

[Roses]

I think Jesus existed, but much of what was claimed for him was either untrue or greatly exaggerated. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think Jesus existed, but much of what was claimed for him was either untrue or greatly exaggerated.

Why do you think that?