God

[torridon]

If it was a straight binary choice between Sriram's God and the JudeoChristian concept, I'd go with Sriram.  Slightly less bonkers than imagining a discrete 'being' orchestrating things from somewhere in another reality.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If it was a straight binary choice between Sriram's God and the JudeoChristian concept, I'd go with Sriram.  Slightly less bonkers than imagining a discrete 'being' orchestrating things from somewhere in another reality.

I can see the appeal of I am God and many people in the west function along those lines.

If Sriram is right there would still be the issue of how self alienation and alienation from God affects God consciousness.

[Roses]

I think ill let you reflect on that but suffice it to say science and society are not interested in the personal, the self, experience, morals being more interested in repeatability and confòrmity.

You strike me as someone architypically who has to be given the answers short of any potential of finding yourself perhaps?

You try to get answers from other posters, but won't provide your own.

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I will broadly outline the different stages of God realization....

1. Belief in an external God is initially born of fear and insecurity. 

2. We start praying to this God for protection and survival.

3. We develop rituals and systems to approach Him and interact with him.

4. We control our behavior and discipline our thoughts so as to please Him.

5. We then start developing a relationship with God and become friendly with Him.

6. We start feeling his presence and start feeling the power of his blessing and love. 

7. We then realize that we have several layers of Consciousness within ourselves.

8. We then realize that all the love, blessing and comfort is actually coming from within ourselves.

9. We then develop techniques and methods such as Yoga and meditations to control our mind further and bring out this 'God' from within.

10. We then realize that at the deepest level we have a common consciousness that seems to connect all life around us.

11. As the lower levels of conscious become less relevant ans intense, we become more and more loving, selfless, wise, stable, patient and universal.

All this of course, cannot happen over one life time. It happens over several births with different experiences. 

Cheers.

Sriram

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hi everyone,

I will broadly outline the different stages of God realization....

1. Belief in an external God is initially born of fear and insecurity. 

2. We start praying to this God for protection and survival.

3. We develop rituals and systems to approach Him and interact with him.

4. We control our behavior and discipline our thoughts so as to please Him.

5. We then start developing a relationship with God and become friendly with Him.

6. We start feeling his presence and start feeling the power of his blessing and love. 

7. We then realize that we have several layers of Consciousness within ourselves.

8. We then realize that all the love, blessing and comfort is actually coming from within ourselves.

9. We then develop techniques and methods such as Yoga and meditations to control our mind further and bring out this 'God' from within.

10. We then realize that at the deepest level we have a common consciousness that seems to connect all life around us.

11. As the lower levels of conscious become less relevant ans intense, we become more and more loving, selfless, wise, stable, patient and universal.

All this of course, cannot happen over one life time. It happens over several births with different experiences. 

Cheers.

Sriram

Which rather brings me to my original question........why at stage 11 are you still referring to "God consciousness". Sounds like cake and eat it.

[Stranger]

I will broadly outline the different stages of God realization....

And we should take this seriously, because.......?

[Sriram]

Which rather brings me to my original question........why at stage 11 are you still referring to "God consciousness". Sounds like cake and eat it.

You can refer to it any way you want. Many people in India refer to it as the 'Self' or Atman or Brahman.

It makes no difference. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You can refer to it any way you want. Many people in India refer to it as the 'Self' or Atman or Brahman.

It makes no difference.

Getting to God, then trading that in for self sounds a bit like finding a winning lottery ticket then finding a fine cigar and using the lottery ticket to light it.

[Sriram]

We are not trading something for something else.  I am talking about a realization that dawns over time. Reality is what it is. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

We are not trading something for something else.  I am talking about a realization that dawns over time. Reality is what it is.

OK the problem might Be terminology all.

[wigginhall]

You can refer to it any way you want. Many people in India refer to it as the 'Self' or Atman or Brahman.

It makes no difference.

I am familiar with non-dualism in some of its forms, but not sure why you call this God.  I guess this does not have Christian connotations, e.g., all-powerful, separate from the world, and so on.  It seems to me that Self is quite a different idea from God, but again, this is from the point of view of Western dualism.

[ekim]

I am familiar with non-dualism in some of its forms, but not sure why you call this God.  I guess this does not have Christian connotations, e.g., all-powerful, separate from the world, and so on.  It seems to me that Self is quite a different idea from God, but again, this is from the point of view of Western dualism.

I think Sriram would have done better not to use the western catch all word 'God' and used the Sanskrit word 'Brahman'.  Even this is not without its problems as there are various schools of thought about dualism and non-dualism.  Although one can pick out apparent similarities in some of the Biblical words with those used is 'Hinduism' it is more than likely that Christian doctrine would prevent acknowledgement of this.

[wigginhall]

Interesting that Christianity is basically dualistic, since if it wasn't, there would be no need for salvation, yet some of the mystics have embraced non-dualism.   I know Buddhists who talk about God, but not in the Superman sense, more like "be here now".

[Dicky Underpants]

My socially acquired agnostic atheism fell apart as I reflected more.

Well, I went against the secularist trend  for years, thinking a 'theistic' (in the sense of existentially purposive, normative and meaningful) explanation of reality was ultimately true. As I reflected more and experienced more, this "fell apart".

[Sriram]

The reason I use the word God is because it is the same God (in any religion) that we initially pray to and from whom we receive peace, blessing and love....who we later realize as our Higher Self. 

We pass from duality to non duality.  (It is like we try to reduce everything in the complex physical world to its constituent parts, come to different atoms, various elementary particles and so on.....but eventually arrive at a single entity....Strings).  Its the same in spirituality.

So, regardless of Christian or Hindu doctrine, the reality of the journey is the same for everyone.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well, I went against the secularist trend  for years, thinking a 'theistic' (in the sense of existentially purposive, normative and meaningful) explanation of reality was ultimately true. As I reflected more and experienced more, this "fell apart".

I don't recall having to swap God for science. But a kind of socially acquired secular humanism and naturalism wasn't tenable. Not that it had much content.

[Stranger]

So, regardless of Christian or Hindu doctrine, the reality of the journey is the same for everyone.

Obviously not.     

[Stranger]

I don't recall having to swap God for science. But a kind of socially acquired secular humanism and naturalism wasn't tenable. Not that it had much content.

You really are obsessed with science and your list of -isms, aren't you?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Obviously not.     

I find myself a deal closer to Sriram than yourself. I find you don't really have a lot to say on this.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You really are obsessed with science and your list of -isms, aren't you?

Eh?

[Stranger]

I find myself a deal closer to Sriram than yourself.

Glad to hear it.   

[Sebastian Toe]

People who start going on about God either somehow manage to make this inward journey of reflection to find they exist as a self and are no longer defined by any philosophy or able to hide behind a given argument or socially acquired agnosticism or they are brought to that point either by circumstances or encounter.

What about those who don't "start going on about god"?
How should they proceed?

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

Just because Christians have beliefs that seem to be at variance with the above philosophy does not mean anything. Such beliefs are a stage in the development of the people. Many Hindus also believe in various Gods and visit temples and perform rituals. Everyone is not a philosopher or a Yogi.

Even in Christianity many gnostics do believe in the same philosophy as I have highlighted. Similarly in Islam and Judaism.  In that sense there is no difference between Hinduism and Christianity or Islam or Judaism.
 
The only difference between Hinduism and other major religions is that a sizable number of people understand the inner mechanisms while still being deeply devotional.  In fact, the Bhagavad Gita itself from ancient days gives a very comprehensive idea of the different paths that people can take....devotion, action and wisdom.

Therefore it does not matter how a person worships as long as they have good intent.

Cheers.

Sriram

[Stranger]

It is rather amusing that Sriram has just as much blind faith in his view of religion as any fundamentalist. The same absolute certainty based on nothing but subjective experience and religious preferences.

[SteveH]

It is rather amusing that Sriram has just as much blind faith in his view of religion as any fundamentalist. The same absolute certainty based on nothing but subjective experience and religious preferences.

Unlike all atheists, of course...