Science: Indian style

[Gordon]

It's science: but not as we know it.

It would be funny if some of these guys weren't serious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-46778879

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Im wondering G. if it might be a good idea to review the thread title.

[Gordon]

Im wondering G. if it might be a good idea to review the thread title.

Can't see why: it is a science conference in India and scientific claims are being made that are, to say the least, surprising. From the link we are told that 'The head of a southern Indian university cited an old Hindu text as proof that stem cell research was discovered in India thousands of years ago.', which is a scientific claim.

[Sriram]

Yes. This is a hot topic today and there are many protests against such nonsensical claims by a couple of university professors.

It is true that there are many references in various Hindu epics and puranic literature which are intriguing and in need of further research. For example, in the Ramayana dated to around 7th to 4th centuries BCE, there are many clear geographical references to places in India ranging from the north to the south. There are even clear references to a man made bridge between India and Sri Lanka (from Ramaswaram). (Lord Rama is said to have built this bridge to cross the sea and go to Sri Lanka to rescue his wife Sita).   This bridge called the Ram Sethu, has now been identified by satellite images.

All this detail from an author (Maharishi Valmiki) who lived near Ayodhya in North India does raise some interesting questions. 

In other words, there are many interesting aspects needing further research. But this tends to make some people very enthusiastic and  ambitious. They make idiotic claims on many things. But these are just a few people in fringe groups.

Indian scientists in general are known for their contributions in space research, medicine and other areas within India. Many Indian scientists are also on the world stage with Chandrasekhar (of the Chandra observatory), Venkatraman , V Ramachandran being some of them.

So, it is unfair to dub these pseudo scientists as representing 'Indian Science'. 

[Gordon]

So, it is unfair to dub these pseudo scientists as representing 'Indian Science'.

Not really unfair at all, Sriram: since based on the details in the link this seems to have been a major scientific conference within which pseudo-science has been allowed to creep in, and there also seems to be some political influence is support of pseudo-science.

I can understand that many professional scientists working in India would dissociate themselves from pseudo-science but there is clearly a problem if it is intruding into territory of mainstream science, and if in doing so it gains credibility that isn't warranted.

[Robbie]

I don\t geneerally 'do' regret but reading this makes me wish I had visited India. I've always had a passion for it and thought I'd go but never have. I don't want to go now, couldn't cope with the travelling. Wish I'd been  .

Sririam brings India here  .

[Robbie]

Sririam, do you know about the film, 'The Man who Knew Infinity' ?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Not really unfair at all, Sriram: since based on the details in the link this seems to have been a major scientific conference within which pseudo-science has been allowed to creep in, and there also seems to be some political influence is support of pseudo-science.

I can understand that many professional scientists working in India would dissociate themselves from pseudo-science but there is clearly a problem if it is intruding into territory of mainstream science, and if in doing so it gains credibility that isn't warranted.

I dont think anyone has any beef about the facts you outline.
I think we are rather boggling about your choice of a thread title.

[ekim]

Not just India ..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Physics

[Sriram]

Not really unfair at all, Sriram: since based on the details in the link this seems to have been a major scientific conference within which pseudo-science has been allowed to creep in, and there also seems to be some political influence is support of pseudo-science.

I can understand that many professional scientists working in India would dissociate themselves from pseudo-science but there is clearly a problem if it is intruding into territory of mainstream science, and if in doing so it gains credibility that isn't warranted.

There are always some pseudo scientists everywhere. Lot depends on how much it is publicized or simply ignored.

[Sriram]

I don\t geneerally 'do' regret but reading this makes me wish I had visited India. I've always had a passion for it and thought I'd go but never have. I don't want to go now, couldn't cope with the travelling. Wish I'd been  .

Sririam brings India here  .

You are most welcome to India, Robbie.  It is a messy, over crowded, dusty and noisy place....compared to the UK.  But you'll love the energy and the  life affirming, cheerful manner of the locals. Once you get used to the change in lifestyle, you will love it, as many people have.     

India has always been special, even during its most underdeveloped, impoverished days! 

[Sriram]

Sririam, do you know about the film, 'The Man who Knew Infinity' ?

Yes...the film is about Ramanujam, the famous mathematician. He lived in the same state that I am from (Tamil Nadu).

[Nearly Sane]

Surely the issue is not the fringe existing but as the article covers that it seems to be becoming more mainstream as part of the BJP's and Narendra Modi's influence - perhaps Vlad is right and this is more Science: Modi Model?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Surely the issue is not the fringe existing but as the article covers that it seems to be becoming more mainstream as part of the BJP's and Narendra Modi's influence - perhaps Vlad is right and this is more Science: Modi Model?

Suggesting that gravity waves be renamed after your Prime Minister is a study in sycophancy.

[Nearly Sane]

Suggesting that gravity waves be renamed after your Prime Minister is a study in sycophancy.

Though there are a few things I might suggest could be named after Theresa May.

[Nearly Sane]

Not just India ..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tao_of_Physics

yep, I remember reading that, and throwing it across the room at one point. I regretted it because I had been facing the wrong way to throw it into the bin.

[Nearly Sane]

I dont geneerally 'do' regret but reading this makes me wish I had visited India. I've always had a passion for it and thought I'd go but never have. I don't want to go now, couldn't cope with the travelling. Wish I'd been  .

Sririam brings India here  .

You're still a youngster in today's world and with a bit of planning, sure the travel would be manageable. India is a fantastic, contradictory,huge, pulsating country, filled as Sriram notes with marvellous people. And I've only ever scratched the surface of it in my visits. Don't give up on it yet!

[Robbie]

Not anything to do with how old I am NS but I don't feel confident about travelling. I only went to America in September because my daughter was there and wanted us to go to celebrate her dad being 60. We enjoyed ourselves but I did find it all bit much. So I won't be going to India.

[Sriram]

Surely the issue is not the fringe existing but as the article covers that it seems to be becoming more mainstream as part of the BJP's and Narendra Modi's influence - perhaps Vlad is right and this is more Science: Modi Model?

I don't think Modi is promoting any such thing. It is some people in fringe groups who come up with such stupid things. No one takes it seriously. India is a very large country and lots of things happen in different corners that no one even knows about really.

And besides, it has faced so much flak from the students themselves that it just died a natural death.   

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think Modi is promoting any such thing. It is some people in fringe groups who come up with such stupid things. No one takes it seriously. India is a very large country and lots of things happen in different corners that no one even knows about really.

And besides, it has faced so much flak from the students themselves that it just died a natural death.

said the BJP voter.

[Sriram]

said the BJP voter.

How do you know I am a BJP voter?  Most Hindus like me don't like religious fanatics...including Hindu fanatics. We are secularists....though spiritualists.

[Nearly Sane]

How do you know I am a BJP voter?  Most Hindus like me don't like religious fanatics...including Hindu fanatics. We are secularists....though spiritualists.

It  was the attempt to avoid this as being related to Modi and the BJP. It would be easier to accept the idea that "no one takes it seriously' if some of the ideas weren't promulgated by Modi, or weren"t as obviously founded round a personality cult.

[Sriram]

It  was the attempt to avoid this as being related to Modi and the BJP. It would be easier to accept the idea that "no one takes it seriously' if some of the ideas weren't promulgated by Modi, or weren"t as obviously founded round a personality cult.

BJP has a personality cult, I agree.  But I don't think any senior member of BJP would be stupid enough to interfere with Science and make ridiculous claims as these professors have done.

BJP is content with rebuilding temples that had been destroyed by Muslims and re-renaming places that had been earlier renamed by Muslim rulers. There is also an attempt at a sort of Hindu revival (as against minority appeasement). This takes the form of promoting vegetarianism, secular spirituality, Yoga and similar stuff.

But there is also a parallel thrust in favor of scientific and economic development side by side.  India is growing at 7.2% and is the third largest economy in the world (after China and the US), in PPP terms.

Cheers.

Sriram