Is atheism just a "true for me" thing.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No it's not.

I shows that you start out from a position of NOT accepting the claim.

One doesnt though go into a self diagnostic to judge whether one can start with non existence.

[Gordon]

I may have misjudged BR since he went on to talk about the formation of beliefs which involved weighing up arguments and coming to an opinion......

Super

And so after that any claim to having no opinion or belief becomes dubious........like er......claiming God is not to be taken seriously......or......The notion of God is a mess....are not opinions views or beliefs about god....for instance.

So - if I claim I have a '&%~we12**' in my garage, and by way of justification offer only my personal conviction this is so, is that sufficient for you to form a belief or opinion regarding my claim of '&%~we12**' ?   

As for answering the question of wether atheism was just a matter of being a true for me. That reply#129 was IMV a tinee wee little Dodgkin.

Not really since, as I implied,  I suspect your thread title is yet another recruit from your army of straw men.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Since its gone a bit quiet round here I can lay my cards on the table.

If atheism were true it would be true for all.
If christianity were true it would be true for all.
The notion of a true for me in this context is therefore pretty dubious.

I thang you.

[Gordon]

Since its gone a bit quiet round here I can lay my cards on the table.

If atheism were true it would be true for all.
If christianity were true it would be true for all.
The notion of a true for me in this context is therefore pretty dubious.

I thang you.

You've just confirmed that you are well out of your depth, Vlad: mind you, I suspect you'd be well out of your depth if you were standing in a small puddle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Super

So - if I claim I have a '&%~we12**' in my garage, and by way of justification offer only my personal conviction this is so, is that sufficient for you to form a belief or opinion regarding my claim of '&%~we12**' ?   

Not really since, as I implied,  I suspect your thread title is yet another recruit from your army of straw men.

Again Gordon. Sorry but you have not only formed an opinion or view concerning God......youve stated.

I shall state  the same about this thing as you have about God that you have in the garage and freely admit that is my opinion and belief about it.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You've just confirmed that you are well out of your depth, Vlad: mind you, I suspect you'd be well out of your depth if you were standing in a small puddle.

I could say exactly the same about you Gordon...couldnt I.

[Maeght]

Since its gone a bit quiet round here I can lay my cards on the table.

If atheism were true it would be true for all.

How can a statement of an individual's lack of belief in God or gods be true to all?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How can a statement if an individual's lack of belief in God or gods be true to all?

What do you call a situation where there are no gods.
Perhaps I should be using that word.

Your chance to put me straight.

[Gordon]

Again Gordon. Sorry but you have not only formed an opinion or view concerning God......youve stated.

I shall state  the same about this thing as you have about God that you have in the garage and freely admit that is my opinion and belief about it.

Translation please, for those of us corresponding in English.

[Maeght]

What do you call a situation where there are no gods.
Perhaps I should be using that word.

Your chance to put me straight.

A situation where there are no gods? Is that what you meant to ask or were you asking for a name for someone who states there are no gods?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Translation please, for those of us corresponding in English.

Thats usually a sign that youve raised the white flag so surrender accepted.
One wee point. I hope you arent suggesting that the amount of information you gave about the entity in your garage is in anyway equivalent to that which has been claimed fotr God in your experience.

That would be very foolish indeed.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

A situation where there are no gods? Is that what you meant to ask or were you asking for a name for someone who states there are no gods?

Wrell I think the latter is ...er...atheist...as is the former.
If I am wrong please demonstrate.

[Gordon]

Thats usually a sign that youve raised the white flag so surrender accepted.

It's a sign that you aren't expressing yourself very well.

One wee point. I hope you arent suggesting that the amount of information you gave about the entity in your garage is in anyway equivalent to that which has been claimed fotr God in your experience.

That would be very foolish indeed.

I take it you aren't familiar with Carl Sagan's 'The Dragon in My Garage'? 

[Maeght]

Wrell I think the latter is ...er...atheist...as is the former.
If I am wrong please demonstrate.

No. Atheist is having no personal belief in gods not a belief that there are no gods.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's a sign that you aren't expressing yourself very well.

I take it you aren't familiar with Carl Sagan's 'The Dragon in My Garage'?

I am familiar with Carl Sagan not being an atheist.

[Gordon]

I am familiar with Carl Sagan not being an atheist.

Whoosh

[BeRational]

Since its gone a bit quiet round here I can lay my cards on the table.

If atheism were true it would be true for all.
If christianity were true it would be true for all.
The notion of a true for me in this context is therefore pretty dubious.

I thang you.

Atheism isn't a truth claim.

I am an atheist, that much is true.

I still think you do not know atheism is. IT IS NOT A CLAIM

[BeRational]

I am familiar with Carl Sagan not being an atheist.

Let me ask you this.

I am an atheist.

Question.

Do you think I believe there are no gods.

Yes or No please, no need for any other answer.

[Nearly Sane]

Just for clarity, I'm wondering what Vlad thinks 'true for me' means?

[Sebastian Toe]

Just for clarity, I'm wondering what Vlad thinks 'true for me' means?

For Vlad it seems to mean, if it's true for him then it must be true for everyone else.




Otherwise, God-dodging!
 

[Nearly Sane]

For Vlad it seems to mean, if it's true for him then it must be true for everyone else.




Otherwise, God-dodging!
 

To be fair, I think it's a generally unclear phrase. My liking for marmite is obviously in a simplistic sense true for me. It is also though effectively true for everyone i.e. That I like marmite.

Rather it would seem to be about whether I think it is important for others to agree with me. And that's not really saying it's true for me as opposed to in any sense not being true for others. I suspect in most cases when people say it is true for them, they are also saying they think it is true for others. Else why believe it at all.


Vlad seems to be unclear about what he's is meaning but to be honest, I think that's true of a lot of the time it's used. I don't really see the value in it.

[Sebastian Toe]

To be fair, I think it's a generally unclear phrase. My liking for marmite is obviously in a simplistic sense true for me. It is also though effectively true for everyone i.e. That I like marmite.

Rather it would seem to be about whether I think it is important for others to agree with me. And that's not really saying it's true for me as opposed to in any sense not being true for others. I suspect in most cases when people say it is true for them, they are also saying they think it is true for others. Else why believe it at all.


Vlad seems to be unclear about what he's is meaning but to be honest, I think that's true of a lot of the time it's used. I don't really see the value in it.

If Vlad says he believes in God/Jesus because he has personal experience of them, then that is true for everyone as above.

However what I think is that Vlad says God/Jesus are fact, because he has personal experience of them, then that is true for everyone else God-dodging/crap flavour of the month philosophical arguements/New Atheists.
IMO

[wigginhall]

Yes, not experiencing God is as factual as experiencing God.

[Nearly Sane]

If Vlad says he believes in God/Jesus because he has personal experience of them, then that is true for everyone as above.

However what I think is that Vlad says God/Jesus are fact, because he has personal experience of them, then that is true for everyone else God-dodging/crap flavour of the month philosophical arguements/New Atheists.
IMO

But whenever I think that I have a personal experience that makes me believe something, then leaving aside that I may think it possible that I am wrong, what I believe to be true is what I believe to be true for everyone.

[jeremyp]

How can a statement of an individual's lack of belief in God or gods be true to all?

the fact is that I jeremyp do not believe in God. That is a statement that is true no matter who you are. It's a universal truth that jeremyp does not believe in God.