Holocaust Denial

[Roses]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47015184

Apparently 5% of the British population don't believe the Holocaust happened, and one in 12 think it was exaggerated. I think this is deeply shocking, surely there is enough evidence of one of the most terrible events in human history.

[Owlswing]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47015184

Apparently 5% of the British population don't believe the Holocaust happened, and one in 12 think it was exaggerated. I think this is deeply shocking, surely there is enough evidence of one the most terrible events in human history.

This is truly horrific, but it was always going to happen.

Even if there were only five Deniers at the end of the War, they teach their children and those children theirs, the number is always going to grow and it is only by education that then number will be reduced and even then there will be the dyed-in-the-wool few who will never change.

It would be interesting to find out how many of those deniers are also abnti-semitic.

[Nearly Sane]

This is truly horrific, but it was always going to happen.

Even if there were only five Deniers at the end of the War, they teach their children and those children theirs, the number is always going to grow and it is only by education that then number will be reduced and even then there will be the dyed-in-the-wool few who will never change.

It would be interesting to find out how many of those deniers are also abnti-semitic.

While correlation doesn't show causation, I suspect in this case the anti semitism drives the denial.

[SteveH]

Besides the Jews there were many others whom the evil Nazis despised, like non whites, homosexuals and people with disabilities, who were exterminated too.

It's important to get the facts right, or you play right into the deniers' hands. Non-whites - specifically black people of African or Afro-Caribbean origin - were second-class citizens in Nazi Germany, but were not severely persecuted just because of their skin colour. I read a few years ago an account by an elderly black German, son of a white German mother and a Jamaican father, who was a child during the Nazi era. He was very annoyed at the time that he wasn't allowed to join the Hitler Youth, but otherwise enjoyed his childhood. (Naturally, when he discovered what the Nazis had been doing in the camps after the war, he was horrified.)

[Roses]

That the attitudes were widespread. That you can't package it as being about the Nazis, bad guys, men in the black hats.

Agreed. Tragically people with those attitudes are coming to the fore again, and that needs cracking down upon a.s.a.p.

[jeremyp]

And after the Allies win they did nothing about the anti-homosexual laws that the Nazis had. And indeed we terrorised Alan Turing to death. To an extent we are all in denial.

Who’s we?

[jeremyp]

The generally accepted figure for the number of Jews killed by the Nazis is 6 million. I’ve always thought that this was incontrovertible in the face of the evidence and I really don’t understand why anybody would deny it unless they were anti-Semitic.

However, the Jews were only one of the groups persecuted. The Nazis slaughtered pretty much everybody they didn’t consider to be on a similar level to the white “aryan race”. In fact, their racism was the cause of their downfall. They would never have considered invading Russia if they hadn’t thought of the Slavic peoples (including Russians) as being inferior.

[Nearly Sane]

Who’s we?

You, me, us.

[Aruntraveller]

and were generally left alone provided they were discreet.

What a genteel image you have of 1950's Britain.

[Robbie]

The Romani people of Europe were also targeted by the Nazis for extermination. Between 220,000 and 500,000 were murdered.

What a genteel image you have of 1950's Britain.

Frequently portrayed that way in television drama and films set in that period.

[jeremyp]

You, me, us.

but I am not in denial.

[ProfessorDavey]

but I am not in denial.

Nor am I

[Owlswing]

The Holocaust in Nazi Gemany grew from anti-semitism similar to that being demonstrated in the U K today? The difference is only one of degree?

[jeremyp]

The Holocaust in Nazi Gemany grew from anti-semitism similar to that being demonstrated in the U K today?

No.

The antisemitism of Nazi Germany was institutionalised - a part of the state. You don't see anything like that in Britain today. You could say some people are anti semitic but it's only a small number but it is not endemic. Most people in Britain see antisemitism for the nasty thing it is.

[SteveH]

No.

The antisemitism of Nazi Germany was institutionalised - a part of the state. You don't see anything like that in Britain today. You could say some people are anti semitic but it's only a small number but it is not endemic. Most people in Britain see antisemitism for the nasty thing it is.

Although, of course, anyone who criticises Israel in any way must be anti-semitic. (Sarcasm.)

[Roses]

One doesn't have to be anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, as I often do. Not all Jews  approve of the way that country behaves.

[SusanDoris]

Although, of course, anyone who criticises Israel in any way must be anti-semitic. (Sarcasm.)

That's one of the reasons I posted as I did earler on.

[SteveH]

One doesn't have to be anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, as I often do. Not all Jews  approve of the way that country behaves.

Yes. That was my point. I was being sarcastic, because Israel's defenders always accuse critics of being anti-semitic.

[Roses]

Yes. That was my point. I was being sarcastic, because Israel's defenders always accuse critics of being anti-semitic.

I did get your point, dear.

[Owlswing]

No.

The antisemitism of Nazi Germany was institutionalised - a part of the state. You don't see anything like that in Britain today. You could say some people are anti semitic but it's only a small number but it is not endemic. Most people in Britain see antisemitism for the nasty thing it is.

It only became institutionalised after the Nazi's came to power and implemented Hitler's policies - It did not have a public face befotre that?

I don't think so; the Nazi's made use of the public by engineering the public's concept of the Jews as the people who back-stabbed the German Army so that it lost WWI, it was the cause of all Germany's unemployment problems . . .

Yeah - bury your head in the sand, all it needs in the U K is someone who can work the public the waY Hitler and his cronis dd and bingo!

I tru;y hope that that' someone' never appears., I really and truly do!

[Roses]

It only became institutionalised after the Nazi's came to power and implemented Hitler's policies - It did not have a public face befotre that?

I don't think so; the Nazi's made use of the public by engineering the public's concept of the Jews as the people who back-stabbed the German Army so that it lost WWI, it was the cause of all Germany's unemployment problems . . .

Yeah - bury your head in the sand, all it needs in the U K is someone who can work the public the waY Hitler and his cronis dd and bingo!

I tru;y hope that that' someone' never appears., I really and truly do!

That nasty piece of work, Tommy Robinson, appeals to the very far right UKIP supporters.

[jeremyp]

Yes. That was my point. I was being sarcastic, because Israel's defenders always accuse critics of being anti-semitic.

This is false. We recently had a disagreement in which I defended Israel, but I never accused you of being anti Semitic.

[jeremyp]

It only became institutionalised after the Nazi's came to power and implemented Hitler's policies - It did not have a public face befotre that?

I don't think so; the Nazi's made use of the public by engineering the public's concept of the Jews as the people who back-stabbed the German Army so that it lost WWI, it was the cause of all Germany's unemployment problems . . .

Yeah - bury your head in the sand, all it needs in the U K is someone who can work the public the waY Hitler and his cronis dd and bingo!

I tru;y hope that that' someone' never appears., I really and truly do!

Nobody said it could never change, but the situation now in the UK was compared to the situation in Nazi Germany. It’s patently absurd to compare modern Britain with Nazi Germany in this way.

We are not even close to gassing the Muslims and I would say there is more antipathy towards them than Jews at the moment.

[SteveH]

This is false. We recently had a disagreement in which I defended Israel, but I never accused you of being anti Semitic.

Well, obviously I was speaking loosely, but they often do so.

[Maeght]

Nobody said it could never change, but the situation now in the UK was compared to the situation in Nazi Germany. It’s patently absurd to compare modern Britain with Nazi Germany in this way.

I'm not sure that that was the comparison being made. The post said about Nazi Germany growing out of antisemitism so surely is saying that antisemitism within society allowed the growth of the Nazis. I don't think antisemitism is as common in Britain today as it was in Germany before the growth of the Nazis yet but it could become so if its not addressed. That surely is part of the Warning From History when it comes to the Nazis.