Britain's next leader

[Roses]

His point was that we would take back control of that amount, so potentially it could be spent on the NHS.

Really?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Spud,

His point was that we would take back control of that amount, so potentially it could be spent on the NHS.

But that "point" was a lie. First, a significant portion of that amount comes back in the form of various grants and incentives, not least to the economically deprived regions that need it most.

Second though, imagine that it cost you £20 to go to car boot sale every Sunday and one day you decided not to bother any more, thereby saving yourself the £20. Good plan right?

Er, probably not if you made a £200 profit when you did go. That's the point - the economic benefit of paying the net amount we actually pay (not least from access to the single market) dwarfs the payment itself. Funnily enough though Boris didn't feel the need to put that on the side of the bus.     

[Dicky Underpants]

Do you:

1. Get asked to tutor Princes William and Harry in the summer holidays when at university
2. Get appointed as deputy governor of a province in iraq at a ridiculously young age
3. Get asked personally by Prince Charles and the Afghan president to set up a charity

Because:

A. You are the most supremely talented guy around or
B. Because you went to Eton and your father was number two in MI6 providing you with the most astonishingly good network of top establishment people that you (or Daddy) can call up

Discuss.

B most probably. He seems to have had quite a few leg-ups; but also enough natural talent to acquit himself well in the positions to which he was promoted. Interestingly, he was a fully paid-up Labour member when he was tutoring the royals. I'm pleased to hear that he's quite a linguist, and made good use of this in Afghanistan speaking Dari to the locals.

Two quite revealing paragraphs from a recent Evening Standard article:

Is he tough enough to be PM? A toothy grin spreads across his face. “The reason I have been proud to be in Iraq, in Afghanistan, serving my country is because I believe in a Britain that is understated in its answers to those kind of questions. I don’t believe tough guys are people who say they are tough.”

 Later he tells an anecdote from Afghanistan. He was in a blizzard following 9/11, “completely lost.” “Suddenly I saw bumping towards me two big Toyota Land Cruisers. The electric window came down, and there was an SAS guy who served with me in the Balkans. He stuck his head out and said: ‘You are a f**king nutter.’ And then wound up the window and drove off.”

[ProfessorDavey]

'The electric window came down, and there was an SAS guy who served with me in the Balkans'

There are elements of the back-story that don't ring true to me.

Read the standard summary bioga and there is always a mention of a military career - alluded to in that quote. However the reality is that he spent 9 months in the Black Watch (his Dad's regiment) at the age of 18 between A levels and heading off to Oxford. There seems to be a certainly amount of hyperbole surrounding him, which he rarely seems to wish to correct.                                                     

[Aruntraveller]

His point was that we would take back control of that amount, so potentially it could be spent on the NHS.

Yes but the whole point was we got a rebate on that amount from the EU, so you would not be taking back control of £350 million. It was a lesser amount all of which had been promised to other interest anyway to tide them over Brexit. Or indeed spent on non-existent ferries.

[jeremyp]

Boris might not be quite so popular now he has this court case hanging over him.

I don’t understand why the whole lot of that Brexit shower haven’t been dragged into court over this. It’s not as if Boris was the only one involved.

[Nearly Sane]

First of all.it's a real stretch of the law, secondly it's based on Johnson being Mayor and how that is seen. It's a distraction, a waste of time and will just make those who like Johnson see him as a victim.

[Spud]

Really?

Yes- that is what he wrote in an article for the Telegraph. I think he meant all the money they sent back, telling us how we had to spend it - that money would be under the UK's control to put into the NHS if it wished.

[Spud]

Yes but the whole point was we got a rebate on that amount from the EU, so you would not be taking back control of £350 million. It was a lesser amount all of which had been promised to other interest anyway to tide them over Brexit. Or indeed spent on non-existent ferries.

All the same, the slogan was accurate, as £350 million is the amount that we send Brussels that could be spent on the NHS.

[Aruntraveller]

All the same, the slogan was accurate, as £350 million is the amount that we send Brussels that could be spent on the NHS.

Which bit of rebate aren't you getting?

The money we get as a rebate is already spent. So say we get £100 million rebate (I can't remember the actual figure off hand) that is already spent by HMGovernment. Therefore we do not have £350 million to spend on the NHS. So the slogan was not accurate.

Anyway the amount the nation has already lost because of this ongoing fiasco far outweights the paltry sum involved. We aren't going to see a positive return financially on leaving, this side of the next millennium.

[Roses]

Yes- that is what he wrote in an article for the Telegraph. I think he meant all the money they sent back, telling us how we had to spend it - that money would be under the UK's control to put into the NHS if it wished.

You think? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[Spud]

You think? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

You don't sound convinced...

[Roses]

You don't sound convinced...

Boris knowingly lied, imo.

[Spud]

The money we get as a rebate is already spent. So say we get £100 million rebate (I can't remember the actual figure off hand) that is already spent by HMGovernment.

What he's saying is, we can spend the rebate how we want to, rather than how we're told to.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Spud,

All the same, the slogan was accurate, as £350 million is the amount that we send Brussels that could be spent on the NHS.

It's only accurate inasmuch it's accurate that you'd have £20 to spend on something else if you didn't go the car boot sale any more. Do you not think that being much worse off because you wouldn't make your profit any more is more relevantly accurate? It's possible in other words lie by omission as well as by commission.

[Roses]

What he's saying is, we can spend the rebate how we want to, rather than how we're told to.

Boris stated that the  UK gives £350,000,000 per week to the EU, which is apparently untrue.

[Spud]

Spud,

It's only accurate inasmuch it's accurate that you'd have £20 to spend on something else if you didn't go the car boot sale any more. Do you not think that being much worse off because you wouldn't make your profit any more is more relevantly accurate? It's possible in other words lie by omission as well as by commission.

But there might be a bigger profit to be made by spending it differently for all we know. For example, a healthier nation could be a more prosperous nation, hence the idea to invest in the NHS. Why should we commit a proportion of our wealth to the same cause for ever and ever? We have the right to change who we give to.
Personally I think we are better off giving it to Europe, but if someone wants to do a free trade deal with somewhere else and invest elsewhere, he's entitled to try and sell that idea.

[ProfessorDavey]

Boris stated that the  UK gives £350,000,000 per week to the EU, which is apparently untrue.

It is certainly untrue - it implies there is a financial transaction from the UK to the EU of the equivalent of £350m every week. There is no such transaction. The key point being that the so called 'rebate' is applied before any transfer of funds from the UK to the EU.

[Spud]

It is certainly untrue - it implies there is a financial transaction from the UK to the EU of the equivalent of £350m every week. There is no such transaction. The key point being that the so called 'rebate' is applied before any transfer of funds from the UK to the EU.

Ah, thanks PD, I stand corrected. So it's also untrue that the UK 'sends' the EU £350m a week, which is the claim on the side of the bus.

[jeremyp]

All the same, the slogan was accurate, as £350 million is the amount that we send Brussels that could be spent on the NHS.

Ah, no. Wales and Cornwall and all the other economically challenged areas that are currently in receipt of EU handouts want a word with you.

[Udayana]

As far as I can see all the Tory wannabe leaders think the electorate would vote for a Corbyn/Labour government in an election.

Shouldn't they just admit failure and stand down now?

[Harrowby Hall]

So Michael Gove took cocaine. Well!

He is behaving as though he is making a confession and hoping that the electorate will absolve him. I'm not sure that that the electorate is particularly bothered (well, it wasn't when Cameron's phallic adventures with a pig's head were revealed) but a consequence may be that if he he has been less than honest when entering the USA, we may have a prime minister who can only further the "special relationship" on Whats App.

[jeremyp]

So Michael Gove took cocaine. Well!

He is behaving as though he is making a confession and hoping that the electorate will absolve him. I'm not sure that that the electorate is particularly bothered (well, it wasn't when Cameron's phallic adventures with a pig's head were revealed) but a consequence may be that if he he has been less than honest when entering the USA, we may have a prime minister who can only further the "special relationship" on Whats App.

Don't forget that the electorate in this case is the membership of the Conservative Party. The demographic is different to the demographic of the electorate of the country.

[Harrowby Hall]

Indeed it is, jeremyp, thank you for pointing this out.

[Udayana]

Don't forget that the electorate in this case is the membership of the Conservative Party. The demographic is different to the demographic of the electorate of the country.

Johnson's tactics seem targeted directly to getting that vote and eff parliament, buiseness and everyone else.