God should be providing child benefit support.

[Roses]

The RCC and those extreme evangelical 'quiverful families' believe contraception is wrong, a women should be fruitful and multiply within marriage! They believe god sends babies, and it is wrong to prevent a woman conceiving by using contraception. If god is responsible, it should be putting its hand in its pocket and providing the money to support the children.

I suspect many Catholics these days stick up two fingers to that garbage. I wonder how many children this forum's resident Catholic has?

[ekim]

I'm reminded of a celebrity, I can't remember his name nor whether he had just received an Oscar or Golden Globe, but he gave the usual speech of thanks to all the people in his life who helped him on his way.  He ended his speech by saying .... "and finally, my thanks goes to the Roman Catholic Church for the 'Rhythm Method' (of birth control), without which I wouldn't be here today".

[Roses]

I'm reminded of a celebrity, I can't remember his name nor whether he had just received an Oscar or Golden Globe, but he gave the usual speech of thanks to all the people in his life who helped him on his way.  He ended his speech by saying .... "and finally, my thanks goes to the Roman Catholic Church for the 'Rhythm Method' (of birth control), without which I wouldn't be here today".

Nice one!

[Sebastian Toe]

I'm reminded of a celebrity, I can't remember his name nor whether he had just received an Oscar or Golden Globe, but he gave the usual speech of thanks to all the people in his life who helped him on his way.  He ended his speech by saying .... "and finally, my thanks goes to the Roman Catholic Church for the 'Rhythm Method' (of birth control), without which I wouldn't be here today".

Billy Connolly.

[Harrowby Hall]

The RCC is stuck in the early middle ages unwilling to ditch Aquinas. The teaching on sex is based on Aristotle and the Natural Law not on any biblical teaching.

A couple of thoughts occur to me - one is that if women should be fruitful and multiply, then why should not men? A healthy young man, with each ejaculation probably produces sufficient sperm to fertilise most of the women on the planet who are ovulating at that time. Boys are told that it is sinful to masturbate and "waste their precious manhood". I think the Pope should be given a lesson in reproductive biology and then be told to dump Aquinas.

The second is the primary purpose in homo sapiens of sex. It is not, I consider, reproduction but the maintenance of the marriage bond and hence the family. Homo sapiens has evolved a brain which takes about two decades to develop properly. Childhood is far longer than in any other species as a consequence of this. Frequent sexual intercourse is a method of rewarding the parents for staying together and protecting the children. We live in an age in which almost all children survive into adulthood. There is no longer any need for a woman to bear eight children in the hope that three might survive.

[Roses]

Nothing yet from AB on this thread!

[Sassy]

The RCC and those extreme evangelical 'quiverful families' believe contraception is wrong, a women should be fruitful and multiply within marriage! They believe god sends babies, and it is wrong to prevent a woman conceiving by using contraception. If god is responsible, it should be putting its hand in its pocket and providing the money to support the children.

I suspect many Catholics these days stick up two fingers to that garbage. I wonder how many children this forum's resident Catholic has?

Do you think this helps?

It isn't just RCC families who have a lot of children.

I am one of 9 children and both my parents worked for their living and to support us.

Are you suggest we limit the number of children people have?   At one time it would not have mattered given the number of children who actually survived after birth.

In 1800 the Global scale  was  56.7% survived the first 5 years of life whilst 43.3 % shared  dying in the first 5 years.

I have noticed that war killed alot of people   and brought those left behind closer. But as we move away from those times of loss people  forget and they lose sight of what is important.

It was all they could do for their children to survive at one point. Better living conditions, medical help and diet changed a lot of that.

Now the Goverment want's poor houses back and people dying because they cannot afford medical intervention or even today, they closed lot's of hospital so those needing urgent life saving intervention will not reach a hospital in time.

We have more important things to worry about. A lot of the general public who vote for changes which hurt others will ultimately like Judas have blood of the worst kind on their hands.

It won't be till they  themselves and their families become victims that they will see they allowed these things to happen by allowing it for others.

Life has a lot more hurt ahead for everyone. It won't be war that kills generations ahead but mans lack of humanity and charity for others. They will die because they are taking away the answer to the needs of the people.

[Roses]

Do you think this helps?

It isn't just RCC families who have a lot of children.

I am one of 9 children and both my parents worked for their living and to support us.

Are you suggest we limit the number of children people have?   At one time it would not have mattered given the number of children who actually survived after birth.

In 1800 the Global scale  was  56.7% survived the first 5 years of life whilst 43.3 % shared  dying in the first 5 years.

I have noticed that war killed alot of people   and brought those left behind closer. But as we move away from those times of loss people  forget and they lose sight of what is important.

It was all they could do for their children to survive at one point. Better living conditions, medical help and diet changed a lot of that.

Now the Goverment want's poor houses back and people dying because they cannot afford medical intervention or even today, they closed lot's of hospital so those needing urgent life saving intervention will not reach a hospital in time.

We have more important things to worry about. A lot of the general public who vote for changes which hurt others will ultimately like Judas have blood of the worst kind on their hands.

It won't be till they  themselves and their families become victims that they will see they allowed these things to happen by allowing it for others.

Life has a lot more hurt ahead for everyone. It won't be war that kills generations ahead but mans lack of humanity and charity for others. They will die because they are taking away the answer to the needs of the people.

The world is overpopulated so course it matters how many children people have. Children need to be cared for properly, the more you have the less care they get, imo. The older ones often have responsibility for the youngers ones, which is very wrong. Besides which, if the state is having to pay out for large families, that isn't right either, if the parents fail to provide for them by working.

[Sassy]

The world is overpopulated so course it matters how many children people have. Children need to be cared for properly, the more you have the less care they get, imo. The older ones often have responsibility for the youngers ones, which is very wrong. Besides which, if the state is having to pay out for large families, that isn't right either, if the parents fail to provide for them by working.

Hi LR,

The older ones do not have responsibility for the younger ones.   They get better and more care IMO.  My parent's put their children first. We grew up as a family loving each other and caring about each other.  No state paid out for our family and now with over 40 nephews and nieces and who all work for their living some self employed I can tell you the great work ethic and support ethic is  very strong within each family nucleus.

The State don't pay the tax payer pays. And as most of them become tax payers most families simply put back and allow for others to be supported where needed.

The brain washing of the Government and the fact one tax payer think they provide all is really ignorant.  We pay insurance so when things go wrong we have support.
If you pay insurance for your death, is it wrong to claim it?

No state pays the people do. People pay for their own and sometimes others besides but no one is a burden on the state because the people support their people.

The burden on the state is when people have unplanned pregnancies so have an abortion instead of taking precaution free contraception.
I am not arguing whether abortion right or wrong.  I am arguing that there is no need with morning after pill etc  for people to  have  unwanted pregnancies.
The burden is when people come here without medical insurance and rack up thousands in medical bills. Now being taken care of.

I believe that people are brain washed believing they pay hgher taxes for those who are British WHEN in truth it is all the billions we give in Charity and the large medical bills for foreigners which cost us the most.

We need to take care of our own and give surplus to care for others.

My parents worked for a living and raised 9 children and we had a holiday every year they did not frequent pubs.  We as a family looked after each other and we were happy and close knit.
By the age of 12 we were able to take another holiday. Our parents were good parents and taught us right from wrong.  People can have large families and they can support themselves.

[Roses]

Hi LR,

The older ones do not have responsibility for the younger ones.   They get better and more care IMO.  My parent's put their children first. We grew up as a family loving each other and caring about each other.  No state paid out for our family and now with over 40 nephews and nieces and who all work for their living some self employed I can tell you the great work ethic and support ethic is  very strong within each family nucleus.

The State don't pay the tax payer pays. And as most of them become tax payers most families simply put back and allow for others to be supported where needed.

The brain washing of the Government and the fact one tax payer think they provide all is really ignorant.  We pay insurance so when things go wrong we have support.
If you pay insurance for your death, is it wrong to claim it?

No state pays the people do. People pay for their own and sometimes others besides but no one is a burden on the state because the people support their people.

The burden on the state is when people have unplanned pregnancies so have an abortion instead of taking precaution free contraception.
I am not arguing whether abortion right or wrong.  I am arguing that there is no need with morning after pill etc  for people to  have  unwanted pregnancies.
The burden is when people come here without medical insurance and rack up thousands in medical bills. Now being taken care of.

I believe that people are brain washed believing they pay hgher taxes for those who are British WHEN in truth it is all the billions we give in Charity and the large medical bills for foreigners which cost us the most.

We need to take care of our own and give surplus to care for others.

My parents worked for a living and raised 9 children and we had a holiday every year they did not frequent pubs.  We as a family looked after each other and we were happy and close knit.
By the age of 12 we were able to take another holiday. Our parents were good parents and taught us right from wrong.  People can have large families and they can support themselves.

Another topic on which we must agree to differ.

[Sassy]

Another topic on which we must agree to differ.

How do we differ about facts?

I have told you my parents worked for their living and raised 9 children.
I have explained how the people support the people and tax and insurance cover medical costs and how those who work cover their own and others.
Explained how our NHS was used by foreigners from all over the world.

That abortions which are unneccesary unless on medical grounds and planned pregnancy gone wrong cost our NHS billions when they can be avoided.

No room to differ and disagree with facts.  Sorry you cannot move back and see what is in front of you. 

[Roses]

How do we differ about facts?

I have told you my parents worked for their living and raised 9 children.
I have explained how the people support the people and tax and insurance cover medical costs and how those who work cover their own and others.
Explained how our NHS was used by foreigners from all over the world.

That abortions which are unneccesary unless on medical grounds and planned pregnancy gone wrong cost our NHS billions when they can be avoided.

No room to differ and disagree with facts.  Sorry you cannot move back and see what is in front of you. 

I maintain that it is impossible to give all children from a very large family proper love and attention they require. The NHS is staffed by people from other countries, Europe in particular. As for abortion it should be a woman's absolute right to have one, for whatever reason, before the foetus is viable. I reckon it is cheaper in the long run to abort a foetus than pay child benefits and the cost to the NHS of healthcare.

[Sassy]

I maintain that it is impossible to give all children from a very large family proper love and attention they require. The NHS is staffed by people from other countries, Europe in particular. As for abortion it should be a woman's absolute right to have one, for whatever reason, before the foetus is viable. I reckon it is cheaper in the long run to abort a foetus than pay child benefits and the cost to the NHS of healthcare.

You can neither prove or sustain your incorrect personal opinion.  A large family get the most proper love and attention they require. But I fear you have no understanding of the love a child needs. As for the rest. No need for abortions when the morning after pill available. How many abortions have you or your female relatives had? My family have had none.  Maybe because we were raised correctly being from a big family and learning right from wrong.

[Roses]

You can neither prove or sustain your incorrect personal opinion.  A large family get the most proper love and attention they require. But I fear you have no understanding of the love a child needs. As for the rest. No need for abortions when the morning after pill available. How many abortions have you or your female relatives had? My family have had none.  Maybe because we were raised correctly being from a big family and learning right from wrong.

No one in my family has had an abortion. However, when I decided I had produced as many birth children as I wished to bear I was sterilised at the age of 26. My middle daughter produced two lads and was sterilised, my youngest girl's husband had the snip after their three were born.

I still maintain it must be hard to give each child from a large family the individual care they require.