Author Topic: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism  (Read 1925 times)

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33216
New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« on: March 30, 2019, 02:42:39 PM »
Adam Lee is an American atheist who blogs and appears on atheist podcasts.

This is a recent take on developments in and the legacy of the fourhorsemen and associated acts on the atheist, skeptic and non religious communities.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2019/02/the-new-atheism-is-dead-long-live-atheism/

Lee also commentates on the relationship of the alt right and new atheism.

SteveH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10410
  • God? She's black.
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 08:12:57 AM »
Even 'New Humanist' doesn't think much of Messrs Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens, judging by an article in the latest edition by Giovanni Tiso, in which he eviscerates them.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

SusanDoris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8265
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 11:53:29 AM »
Even 'New Humanist' doesn't think much of Messrs Dawkins, Dennett, Harris and Hitchens, judging by an article in the latest edition by Giovanni Tiso, in which he eviscerates them.
Who is this person? And why should I, for one, take any notice of what he says?
The Most Honourable Sister of Titular Indecision.

SteveH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10410
  • God? She's black.
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 12:00:50 PM »
Who is this person? And why should I, for one, take any notice of what he says?
No reason that I'm aware of. Just thought I'd mention it.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19478
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 12:06:11 PM »
Steve H,

Quote
No reason that I'm aware of. Just thought I'd mention it.

No sign of the article in the latest edition of New Humanist (Spring 2019) though, or in previous ones that I can see. Do you have a link please?
"Don't make me come down there."

God

SteveH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10410
  • God? She's black.
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 12:12:35 PM »
It's in the summer 2019 edition, which popped through my letterbox yesterday.
https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5453/religion-and-power-the-summer-2019-new-humanist
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19478
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 12:20:54 PM »
SteveH,

Quote
It's in the summer 2019 edition, which popped through my letterbox yesterday.
https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5453/religion-and-power-the-summer-2019-new-humanist

Thanks - they need to update their website!
"Don't make me come down there."

God

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32509
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2019, 12:28:53 PM »
It's in the summer 2019 edition, which popped through my letterbox yesterday.
https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5453/religion-and-power-the-summer-2019-new-humanist
From the one paragraph extract that is on that page, it looks like Giovanni Tiso has constructed a mighty fine straw man to criticise.

By the way, the fact that New Humanist publishes an article does not imply that the editorial board of the magazine agrees with the article's thesis.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19478
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 12:47:51 PM »
As jeremy says, the available abstract is not a good start:

"Now, as we survey what’s left of the movement from its smouldering ruins, we may wonder what the fuss was about, and how these authors managed to build such formidable straw men of religion and human history on their way to selling millions of books. But New Atheism was never about faith nor, indeed, atheism. It was about asserting the supremacy of Western culture in spite of the enduring place of religion in Western institutions and societies, for the purpose of giving renewed justification to Western imperialism."

So far as I'm aware the "new" atheists didn't build straw men at all - rather they critiqued the arguments theists attempted to validate their beliefs and commented on the malign effect those beliefs had and have when privileged in the real world. And there was no "asserting the supremacy of Western culture" either - atheists come from across the world, and any "supremacy" that was argued for was (and is) the supremacy of reason over faith.

The "for the purpose of giving renewed justification to Western imperialism" is Sriram-level bonkers too - the products of reason, specifically scientific ones aren't imperialistic at all. Is someone living in a theocracy who avails himself of a cure for cancer developed in the West suffering from cultural imperialism?               

"Don't make me come down there."

God

Samuel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1011
  • geology rocks
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 01:39:29 PM »
I think its a litte more nuanced than that. There are plenty of researchers and accademics working in different ways along the theme of 'de-colonialisation' and there are those that make the case that science is not imune to imperialist and colonialist baggage.

For example, your point about the supremacy of reason over faith sounds, well, reasonable, but I have heard it argued that that very idea is inherited from the enlightenment, itself a product of western culture, subsequently progrossed along culturally western lines and exported via imperialist colonialism.

Its not a question of validity of the scientific method, more the cultural context and content that inevitabley comes with it in a world still living with an imperial hangover.
A lot of people don't believe that the loch ness monster exists. Now, I don't know anything about zooology, biology, geology, herpetology, evolutionary theory, evolutionary biology, marine biology, cryptozoology, palaeontology or archaeology... but I think... what if a dinosaur got into the lake?

bluehillside Retd.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19478
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2019, 03:32:41 PM »
Hi Samuel,

Quote
I think its a litte more nuanced than that. There are plenty of researchers and accademics working in different ways along the theme of 'de-colonialisation' and there are those that make the case that science is not imune to imperialist and colonialist baggage.

For example, your point about the supremacy of reason over faith sounds, well, reasonable, but I have heard it argued that that very idea is inherited from the enlightenment, itself a product of western culture, subsequently progrossed along culturally western lines and exported via imperialist colonialism.

Its not a question of validity of the scientific method, more the cultural context and content that inevitabley comes with it in a world still living with an imperial hangover.

Yes I know but I was speaking in the context of the abstract. To take more an egregious example, what Monsanto does with its genetically modified seed could be said to be “imperialist” in the way that it locks third world farmers into their product. Yes you can say that reason and science are born of the Enlightenment, which was a Western phenomenon (it’s something the Muslim world especially has yet to have). But the point of the “new” atheist line was that, using the tools of reason and logic, the arguments attempted for theism collapse. And absent any other method of validation, there is therefore no reason to privilege faith beliefs in the public space any more than guessing.         
"Don't make me come down there."

God

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32509
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: New Atheism is dead, long live atheism
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2019, 08:03:27 PM »
I think its a litte more nuanced than that. There are plenty of researchers and accademics working in different ways along the theme of 'de-colonialisation' and there are those that make the case that science is not imune to imperialist and colonialist baggage.

For example, your point about the supremacy of reason over faith sounds, well, reasonable, but I have heard it argued that that very idea is inherited from the enlightenment, itself a product of western culture, subsequently progrossed along culturally western lines and exported via imperialist colonialism.

Its not a question of validity of the scientific method, more the cultural context and content that inevitabley comes with it in a world still living with an imperial hangover.
so what?

The germ theory of disease is a product of western culture. If something is true and improves people’s lives who gives a crap how it was exported?
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply