Rebirth....

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

I came across the following quote from the bible.


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Titus 3:5-7 New International Version (NIV)

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

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It seems to match well with the Hindu idea that if we are cleansed, we can avoid rebirth and attain liberation (eternal life).

Any views?

Cheers.

Sriram

Further to my OP, the Gnostic Christians seem to have believed in reincarnation...

http://www.christian-reincarnation.com/PDF/ReincGnost.pdf

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The purpose of this study is to demonstrate that the reincarnation concept in no way is unchristian,
but only “unclerical”, since it was known among the Gnostic original Christians

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[BeRational]

Further to my OP, the Gnostic Christians seem to have believed in reincarnation...

http://www.christian-reincarnation.com/PDF/ReincGnost.pdf

***********

The purpose of this study is to demonstrate that the reincarnation concept in no way is unchristian,
but only “unclerical”, since it was known among the Gnostic original Christians

***********

Whether ir is Christian or  not is of little consequence.
It is bonkers regardless

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Further to my OP, the Gnostic Christians seem to have believed in reincarnation...

Actually it's most likely pagan in origin - coming from the "death" of the year toward the winter solstice and the "re-birth" the following spring. Many religious traditions took it and incorporated it into their beliefs (a process called "syncretism" by the way), and there's nothing exceptional about Christianity doing the same thing.   

[Sriram]

A nice video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZOKljH6pBk

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

A nice video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZOKljH6pBk

If you've got a head full of cotton wool, it probably is. As ever, the problem with nonsense like this is that they cite approvingly the academics they think support them but never bother with critiqueing their work. See this article from Wiki for example re criticism of Ian Stevenson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson

[Owlswing]

Sriram,

Actually it's most likely pagan in origin - coming from the "death" of the year toward the winter solstice and the "re-birth" the following spring. Many religious traditions took it and incorporated it into their beliefs (a process called "syncretism" by the way), and there's nothing exceptional about Christianity doing the same thing.   

Thank you!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Whether ir is Christian or  not is of little consequence.
It is bonkers regardless

It isnt orthodox, Catholic or mainstream see posts by myself and anchorman.
The Christian doctrine of regeneration isn't pagan either. It is not about cycles of or in nŕture.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Sriram,

Actually it's most likely pagan in origin - coming from the "death" of the year toward the winter solstice and the "re-birth" the following spring. Many religious traditions took it and incorporated it into their beliefs (a process called "syncretism" by the way), and there's nothing exceptional about Christianity doing the same thing.   

This post seems completely western oriented.
Reincarnation is in eastern philosophy too you know.

[BeRational]

This post seems completely western oriented.
Reincarnation is in eastern philosophy too you know.

Either way, so what?

It is not true. When you die you will  not be reborn.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Either way, so what?

It is not true. When you die you will  not be reborn.

So what........it makes you look pathetically ill informed on this topic.......thats what.

Your very welcome.

[BeRational]

So what........it makes you look pathetically ill informed on this topic.......thats what.

Your very welcome.

How, by knowing that it is not true?

I think not

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How, by knowing that it is not true?

I think not

By being centred on what comes out of the west without acknowledging it is an eastern philosophy. That is what is known by being plain wrong since there is no'either way' about the matter.

What is worse is the criticism of Sriram who claims reincarnation for the east and non criticism of Owlswing who  agrees with Hillside that it is a pagan idea.

[BeRational]

By being centred on what comes out of the west without acknowledging it is an eastern philosophy. That is what is known by being plain wrong since there is no'either way' about the matter.

What is worse is the criticism of Sriram who claims reincarnation for the east and non criticism of Owlswing who  agrees with Hillside that it is a pagan idea.

All immaterial to the actual claim that rebirth is actually true, which it is not.

I do not care where it originates, it is wrong.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

All immaterial to the actual claim that rebirth is actually true, which it is not.

I do not care where it originates, it is wrong.

But not immaterial to your incorrect sloppy viewpoint of it's origin.
 

[bluehillside Retd.]

BR,

Either way, so what?

It is not true. When you die you will  not be reborn.

You're entirely free to respond to him of course if you wish to, but I hope you realise he's just indulging in Vladdism in the hope of some attention? He's fully aware that the fact of multiple death/re-birth stories from pagan/tribal/shamanic etc traditions worldwide has sweet FA to do with Christianity drawing on just one or just some of them. Hell, it even draws on its own prior iterations (Lazarus etc).

The point being of course that personifying the myth with Jesus at the centre is the re-telling of a very old story indeed, and as it happens one that's emerged from many sources with seasons to observe.           

[Walt Zingmatilder]

BR,

You're entirely free to respond to him of course if you wish to, but I hope you realise he's just indulging in Vladdism in the hope of some attention? He's fully aware that the fact of multiple death/re-birth stories from pagan/tribal/shamanic etc traditions worldwide has sweet FA to do with Christianity drawing on just one or just some of them. Hell, it even draws on its own prior iterations (Lazarus etc).

The point being of course that personifying the myth with Jesus at the centre is the re-telling of a very old story indeed, and as it happens one that's emerged from many sources with seasons to observe.           

You are of course entitled to outline your ideas but frankly it is a bit folk comparative religion and taking previous criticism I have made into account...….. very  'Golden Bough'.

George Frazer's shadow, of course hangs, heavily over the modern lack of understanding of religion, is vogue-ishly 19th century in it's Darwinism and a bit culturally er, superior......So as far as the Folk comparative religion it fosters goes it's Bronze aged Goatherders Nil Scientismical Western people three.

Check out the Wikipedia article on the Golden Bough for Frazer's critique of his own work.

[Sriram]

Reincarnation could be taught in universities soon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkKGEkr0v1Q

[BeRational]

Reincarnation could be taught in universities soon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkKGEkr0v1Q

I doubt that very much

[bluehillside Retd.]

Sriram,

Reincarnation could be taught in universities soon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkKGEkr0v1Q

Not in reputable ones it won't.

[Roses]

Reincarnation could be taught in universities soon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkKGEkr0v1Q

I can't see that happening in any British Uni.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I can't see that happening in any British Uni.

So you think the idea might die...….and then come back again in another form?

[Roses]

So you think the idea might die...….and then come back again in another form?

HA! HA!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Reincarnation could be taught in universities soon....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkKGEkr0v1Q

I'm sure it is taught as part of theology courses and those in comparative religion and I would wager eastern beliefs are studied and given correct emphasis.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I would move that despite attempts to make tenuous links about reincarnation to Christianity involving minimising the role of world religions originating in the east, that this thread be moved to The philosophy or another more appropriate boards of this forum.

[bluehillside Retd.]

So anyway as we were saying before the king of the derail turned up, "death is final" is the working assumption until and unless anyone provides evidence to the contrary. So far no-one has managed that, and even leaving aside the manifest flaws in the Christian (and other religion's) tale of various individuals coming back from the dead the notion should at least give pause I'd have thought given that we see the basic death & re-birth narrative repeated endlessly in more ancient traditions, beginning with observations about the winter solstice. Now if Jesus had instead invented the iPhone or the MRI scanner then there'd be something interesting talk about...